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Author Topic: AT LAST THE TRUTH!  (Read 39927 times)

kyradawg

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AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« on: June 12, 2006, 04:22:21 PM »
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html

Guy, Here's some info to digest.

The 2005 average Rape seed crop yielded 32.6 bushels per acre.

There are 50 pounds in a bushel of rape seed 42% being oil.

@ 32.6 bushels per acre there are 684.6 pounds of oil.

There 7.6 pounds of oil in a U.S. gallon.

Which leaves us with 90.07 gallons of oil per acre @ the 2005 average of 32.6 bushels/acre.

In 2003 the total U.S. crude oil consuption was 2,057,000,000 barrels of crude.

One barrel contains 42 U.S. gallons.

863,940,000,000 Gallons of crude were consumed in the U.S. in 2003.

It would take 959,187,298 acres to meet ALL of the U.S. annual oil demand.

There 640 acres in a square mile.

It would take 1,498,730 square miles to meet 2003 U.S. Total oil demands.

There are 587,000,000 acres of available pasture/grasslands in the U.S. which total 9,171,875 square miles.

Still dont think we have the land to support organic fuels and lubes?

If only taking into account the pasture land NOT farmland we have 83% more land than is needed to support ALL of the U.S. annual demand.

It will only take 17% of the 587,000,000 acres of U.S. pasture land to produce 100% of the demand.

That includes 100% of gasoline usage

100% of the heating oil usage

100% of the jet fuel used

100% of the petro chemical usage

100% of the diesel fuel usage

ALL of the above land data come's straight from the USDA government census.

Ill do some more reasearch so we can figure the percentage each industry consumes.


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 01:51:09 AM by kyradawg »

mobile_bob

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2006, 05:36:42 PM »
i didnt take time to do much more than parruse thru the article, but

are you supporting the idea of using vegi oils as lubrication oils?

i thought your interest lies in their use as fuels

looks like alot of modification would have to be done to vegie oil to make it suitable for lubrication oil

bob g
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kyradawg

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2006, 07:29:16 PM »



Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 01:51:39 AM by kyradawg »

Dail R H

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 05:59:16 AM »
   Where does one buy this magic fluid?

oldnslow

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 06:29:57 PM »
Lots of potential here. I had no idea that over time (like in the postal vehical study) it would dissolve out the sludge and heavy metals. Even without the zinc additive, it has a favorable coefficient of friction in the crankcase. Amazing if true, still reading.

I guess if anyone had the nerve to fill their trans with it, it would be you because you worked for GM. Good for you, glad it worked.

AFAIK, Canola is cost competetive to produce. The demand for Canola could easily revive the farms in the midwest. If I lived there, I would be out scouting for farms for sale right now.
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

rgroves

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 07:01:39 PM »
AFAIK, Canola is cost competetive to produce. The demand for Canola could easily revive the farms in the midwest. If I lived there, I would be out scouting for farms for sale right now.

Take a look at "High Plains Journal" or "Grass and Grain", any issue.  There is a staggering number of farm auction sales, from retiring farmers or the estates of them who didn't get to retirement. I wish somebody was buying this land, other than the big players.  Better yet, I wish there was another generation of guys willing to take over the farm from dad. But that's not happening.  Vegetable oil might end up saving the farm economy out here, but for the moment all I see is same same.

Sorry for the digression and the rant. 

Russell Groves
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

oldnslow

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2006, 10:21:10 PM »
Russell I wish I lived out there. I work for a company owned by one of the largest co-ops in the USA and they sell crop inputs. The fuel used in some of our trucks is blended with canola and the savings are considerable.

We have some of the best farmland and climate worldwide for producing these types of oil crops. If it works well and is cost competetive perhaps now is the time to produce more and sell it for fuel/lubricants ie non food markets. The longer crude and gas stay high, the more viable it becomes. Hmmm did the price of gas just level off and drop a penny or two recently? I guess we are in the middle of the growing season.

Some might think, hell these guys need some grant money.... but really, farmers are extremely resourceful and don't need no "stinkin" grant money. If a crop can be grown in a way that produces a viable return they can take it from there.

I am guessing but I bet many farms that went under did so because of debt mismanagement. They were chasing markets that were being manipulated by subsidies that didn't come through. Are ther any articles in the "Grass and Grain" about alternative uses for vegetable oils? It's hard to see a way out when there is no money, no jobs and you struggle just to live. Been there. I need to look at those two mags you mentioned.

Later.......

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rgroves

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2006, 01:22:45 AM »
Some might think, hell these guys need some grant money.... but really, farmers are extremely resourceful and don't need no "stinkin" grant money. If a crop can be grown in a way that produces a viable return they can take it from there.

I am guessing but I bet many farms that went under did so because of debt mismanagement. They were chasing markets that were being manipulated by subsidies that didn't come through. Are ther any articles in the "Grass and Grain" about alternative uses for vegetable oils? It's hard to see a way out when there is no money, no jobs and you struggle just to live. Been there. I need to look at those two mags you mentioned.

What these guys DON'T need is grant money.  They've spent so many years growing cheap cereal grains at a loss, waiting for the subsidy check, and bitching about the government and the local banker-- they don't know any other way.  There are some counties in western KS where the average age of a farmer is 72, and it's a rare person that age who will change anything. 

Debt mismanagement, yes, combined with hidebound tradition, lack of curiosity about anything, and the willingness to buy new machinery whenever the old stuff gets a scratch on it.  It is TOTALLY contrary to any business principles.

Once in a while you'll see an article in a farm magazine about renewable energy.  That's how farmers know it's always ten years away from being practical.

I have a few customers who are farmers, who are growing oilseeds and using my presses to extract the oil.  It is my deepest hope that their example will generate some imitators.  Upcoming issue of Farmshow will profile one of those guys, and I'll post the link to it when it shows up.

rg
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

Halfnuts

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2006, 02:46:36 AM »
Russel,

I was driving through west Kansas and E. Colorado on a state highway south of I-70 last summer and saw lots of fields of small yellow flowers.  I figured they might be an oil seed crop of some sort.  Didn't look like much else was growing in that area except some wheat and an occasional pronghorn. 

Halfnuts

mobile_bob

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2006, 04:05:57 AM »
likely sunflowers

bob g
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kyradawg

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2006, 04:40:15 AM »


Peace&Love :D, Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 01:49:18 AM by kyradawg »

Halfnuts

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2006, 03:03:21 PM »
Yeah, saw a bunch of sunflower fields, too.  These were low-growing plants with very small bright yellow flowers.  Canola's pretty common, so I guessed that might be it. 
Saw more than a few oil wells out there, too. 

Halfnuts

rgroves

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2006, 03:45:18 PM »
Yeah, saw a bunch of sunflower fields, too.  These were low-growing plants with very small bright yellow flowers.  Canola's pretty common, so I guessed that might be it. 
Saw more than a few oil wells out there, too. 

Halfnuts

Sounds like canola to me too.  I have some oil press customers who grow a lot of it down in that part of the state, mostly under irrigation.

rg
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2006, 10:00:39 PM »
Darren,
I noticed on the link that the marine industry was considered the most likely (75%) to use veg based lube oils. This is because of the legal ramifications of an oil spill. Lots of veggy hydraulic oil is used in dockside cranes, or any over water application. Golf courses use it in the mowers and grounds equipment. The problem here is that the US Coast Guard does not give regulatory relief during oil spill enforcement if veggy oil was used instead of petroleum oil. Europe does give a more lenient response because veggy based oils are 100% biodegraded in 28 days after a spill into the marine environment. The US will reduce spill mitigation (cleanup & damage) costs for veggy oil, but not the initial fine for the spill.
I had an application, marine steering and jetpumps that used hydraulic rams and SKF roller bearings under water. The company wouldn't go to bean oil based hydraulic oil because SKF wouldn't warrantee the roller bearings with it. I wanted to give it a try, but the regulatory environment wasn't good enough yet. I'd use veggy based chainsaw bar oil if it was available.
In "the day" castor bean oil was used in race car and motorcycle engines because it was the best. The old timers told me that they had to take the engines apart at the end of the season to clean out the scum that the oil left.
I suppose the modern formulations would be to control that. Darren, using pure rapeseed oil for lube may be good for you now, but it might behoove you to drop the oil pan after a while to see how clean your internals are. Sometimes you take the good with the bad and live with the difference. Most of us would feel better buying and 'official' veggy based motor oil in a jug.....could be a Madison Avenue thing, who knows.
Scott E
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Thomas

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Re: AT LAST THE TRUTH!
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2006, 12:38:23 AM »
We have been using Veg Hyd oil in elevators for a long time.  It just smells different and this is better in some of the places becouse of the stink of hot hydro oil   and it is much easer to get up when you do have a spill .  Tom T