Author Topic: Engine cooling  (Read 23198 times)

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2012, 11:19:49 PM »
If I recall correctly from the distant past...
Bruce had his radiator inside a kind of convective chimney so the hot air above the radiator would rise, pulling cool air in?
Natural draft would be nice, the energy is free (after you do all the work figuring it out and building it)
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BruceM

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2012, 11:48:18 PM »
No, my cooling system is not a convection system, though I'm sure that approach would also work with even a geo metro size radiator with an 8 foot above the radiator, at least 12" diameter stack.  It takes a pretty tall column got get much airflow by convection, and it has to be pretty big ID as the air pressure differential isn't going to be all that much on a hot day.

I used the Rumely oil pull tractor system of inducing a draft through the radiator by using the exhaust within a larger duct to pull a large volume of air behind it.  With this approach, you could probably go as small as 6" duct, though I used 8" as I had a bunch on hand.  You can also have the duct run in any direction.  Mine just happened to point upwards, so there was much confusion as people thought convection was involved.  It's not.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 11:54:48 PM by BruceM »

overbore

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2012, 03:55:41 PM »
Tom: Many thanks as I just ordered two switches which will be placed in series so I have and anticipator and topping set up for my three speed fan in a venturi box.

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LowGear

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2012, 06:00:11 PM »
Don't you mean parallel?

If the left don't get you the right one will.

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fabricator

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2012, 11:08:21 PM »
Yep, gotta be parallel, if one goes out series they are both out.
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vtmetro

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2012, 03:58:18 AM »
I am using my radiator and a section of exhaust pipe for my 6/1 Metro to heat my cinderblock workshop. The workshop is insulated outside of the block for thermal mass, except in this early photo of the beginning engine installation. The engine is loosely enclosed in a wood and stone enclosure outside of the masonry shed.



I live in southern Vermont where we can expect at least a few days each winter to reach -25 C, and generally have snow on the ground December to March, so I like to use the engine heat.

The radiator is angled to allow air to convect up through it -- I haven't needed a radiator fan in winter. Haven't run the engine much in summer, but I could rig a second circuit to another radiator outdoors if I did. The energy cost is much lower to run in winter, though because the heat is useful instead of wasted. Maybe some day I will rig a pre-heater for domestic hot water, and summer usage would make more sense.



The exhaust pipe also routes through the shop. (I do have a monoxide alarm rigged as well).

I flame welded a pipe nipple to a section of flex exhaust to make the connection through the wall. It heats up the shop very quickly, and the block retains the heat well once it heats up, too.



I just fired it up for the first time this year, and got a bunch of fiberglass coming out of the gen head so did a panic stop. A mouse had got in there and made a nest from house insulation material. Luckily there were no chewed wires. Man I hate rodents!

Anyway, thought you'd be interested in this cooling system. Oh I also have a thermostat on the Metro, built from pipe fittings -- I did a thread here on the forum when I built that.




dieselgman

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2012, 07:10:08 AM »
Nice pictures! I understand about the darned rodents! They are constantly giving us trouble in our Kansas shop because they love to crawl into manifolds and cowlings. We have to keep all openings plugged.

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38ac

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2012, 12:57:44 PM »
Know what you mean. Since I haven't run the SL1 for a while I grabbed the flywheel as I walked by it this week and to my horrers it wouldn't budge :o 
Thiinking the worst I rocked it some and it began to move but was making a wierd crunching noise,, flywheel shroud was full of dogfood. Funny thing is there is no dogfood kept in the shop and closest I  know of is across the street??
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vtmetro

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2012, 01:45:34 PM »
Thanks Dieselgman, and 38ac. Dog food seizure! that's funny  :D Better than the real kind I guess, so a happy ending.

The worst part about the mice and metal is the corrosion they cause. They built a nest in a drawer with my lathe chucks and other accessories when I hadn't used the lathe for a couple months. The 4 jaw chuck, angle blocks, 123 blocks, Jacobs chucks and a bunch of other stuff were covered in used mouse bedding, and everything rusted and corroded where they were.

They also chewed the spigot off of two plastic gasoline cans in the barn last winter, and chewed up the plastic pistol grip on the garden hose. They seem to like some kinds of plastic. They love to make swiss cheese out of a nicely folded tarp, and they build nests in the air cleaners of our cars -- even though we use them regularly.

They get inside the instrument panel of my '51 John Deere Model M tractor if it sits a week anywhere, once ate the insulation off the ignition switch wires, and have been known to jump out of the cast iron panel and run across my lap when I start it. Gotta remember to stay calm when that happens and not pop the clutch and abandon ship! I'm not afraid of mice, but it's startling when you don't expect it and pull the starter knob and something furry comes out of the engine right at you. Little boogers!

Back to cooling. I figured the angled radiator would move both the air and the hot water by siphoning and convection. While making it vertical or horizontal would only do one or the other.It seems to work well -- at least for wintercooling/heating. It isn't clear in the picture probably, but the radiator also angles in it's own plane so that the radiator cap is at the highest point. And i have a coolant recovery bottle that you don't see in the photos.

I also insulated the upward going hot water hose from the engine to the radiator, but left the return uninsulated. The photo of the engine above shows the pipe fitting thermostat on the right, but the hose connections hadn't been made yet. The spots on the paint were from a little concrete water when I poured the retaining wall in front of the engine (spots cleaned off later) that holds the gravel and railroad ties the engine bearer is bolted to. All of that stuff is on top of a horse stable pad, and that in turn is on top of a concrete slab. Maybe that is confusing. It goes like this: Concrete slab, horse pad, sand gravel mix. And embedded in the gravel are railroad ties.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 03:29:18 PM by vtmetro »

bschwartz

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2012, 01:50:09 PM »
This is the firs picture I can remember of an engine mounted outside a workshop with the exhaust plumbed INSIDE!!  ;D
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vtmetro

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2012, 02:43:59 PM »
This is the firs picture I can remember of an engine mounted outside a workshop with the exhaust plumbed INSIDE!!  ;D

I got the idea from my old 1300 VW Beetle.  :D  I was actually  thinking of casting an aluminum finned cuff to extract even more, but I shot the pipe with an IR thermometer along its length, and was getting enough out of it, as is.

Maybe I should put in a gate valve and stub nipple to de-mouse the shop when I'm not there!

ronmar

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2012, 03:05:34 PM »
Yep, had a mouse in my St-5 also.  Added expanded metal mesh to the lower air vents next to the pully to keep them out once I cleaned it out.

They also seem to love my sears garden tractor engine(27HP vanguard).  They get up into the engine and make a nest in the middle of the flywheel blower.  I have on occasion missed the visual inspection and started the engine with the nest intact, and had wounded mice exiting the trator rapidly, and mouse parts all thru the engine:(  Big mess...  Just walked by it and found there is a new nest there right now, so I left the hood up to remind me to remove it before I start it... 
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

vtmetro

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2012, 03:24:22 PM »
More photos in case they are useful to somebody.



Turning adapters to go from engine's heater hose to larger diameter automotive radiator hose -- 1-1/4" pipe nipples chucked and turned.



Finished pipe nipples from 3/4" and 1-1/4" pipe. Automotive radiator hose for size comparison.



Assembled adapters using 3/4" to 1-1/4" pipe reducers.





38ac

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2012, 03:27:19 PM »
More photos in case they are useful to somebody.

D-I-Y always useful!!
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vtmetro

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Re: Engine cooling
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2012, 03:46:07 PM »
One more then, 38ac....