Lister LR1starting problem part 2

[steve c]

Hi
Still no luck starting Lister LR1 checked and set the following
1 /Rotation correct
2/Valve clearance set as per hand book on TDC on compression stroke
3/Cylinder head clearance checked ok
4 /New top end gaskets/ seals  all replaced
5/ Valves reground no leaks
6/ Fuel system bled
7/ New ring fitted end gap ok
 On turning engine over placed hand over inlet manifold very little suction  placed hand over exhaust manifold  i get strong suction   & blow out, Tried rotating engine  opposite direction  and get the same result both valves are free not sticking inlet manifold is clear of obstructions
any suggestions greatfully received

Steve

[Tom]

Your camshaft is out of time.

[listard-jp2]

Your camshaft is out of time.

If that were the case, then its highly likely that you would have piston to valve collision situation occurring as the engine is turned over. Correct valve timing is easy to check for: rotate engine by hand with the rocker cover off, and the valves should rock over on TDC if the engine is timed correctly.

On turning engine over placed hand over inlet manifold very little suction placed hand over exhaust manifold i get strong suction  & blow out, Tried rotating engine opposite direction and get the same result both valves are free not sticking inlet manifold is clear of obstructions
any suggestions greatfully received

You should never be able to feel suction on the exhaust port. This may sound crazy but is the inlet valve opening and closing (this is easily checked by removing the rocker cover and watching the valve events while slowly turning the engine over by hand. This could be caused by not having the ball end of the inlet valve pushrod engaged with the corresponding socket on the inlet the cam follower (tappet) .  Although you state the inlet manifold is clear, have you checked the inlet port in the cylinder head. As that is the only other reasonable possibility I can think of.

[veggie]

Hi steve,

Is it possible that your camshaft is 180 out ?
Suction from the exhaust port may be an indicator.
If it were 180 deg out, you would still be able to bleed the system but the fuel injection pulse would be happening on the wrong upstroke cycle of the piston.
(the injection pump also works off the cam)
Seems like you have done everything else correctly.

veggie

[millman56]

Double check the exhaust valve is sealing by blowing down the exhaust pipe  (make sure the pipe is well sealed )  at TDC compression stroke , any major leak  will be apparent, badly worn valve stems and guides prevent proper seating of the valves even though the valve and seats appear to be perfectly lapped in.

Mark.

[Thob]

Do you have a mark on the flywheel for TDC?  If not, you need to mark it.

Assuming you do, it should be easy to check if the valves are close:
Pull off the valve cover so you can see the valves.
Turn the engine over (in the proper direction) to where the injector creaks, this should be about 20* before TDC.
Both valves should be closed.
Keep turning the engine, about 45* before BDC (bottom dead center) the exhaust valve should open.
Keep turning the engine, just before TDC the intake valve should open (there is some overlap where both valves are open)
Turn it just a little more, just after TDC the exhaust valve should close
Keep turning, about 15* after BDC the intake valve should close.
The engine should now be on compression stroke; the injector should fire again about 20* before TDC.

These numbers may not be exact for your engine, but you should be able to tell if the valve timing is way off or not.  My guess is that it's way off.

[steve c]

Hi
Just an uptate on my latest effort to start my Lister LR1
 Removed timming  gear cover  to check timming gear  to see if timming was out  with both timming marks on crankshaft & camshaft gears   in line, the flywheel TDC mark was in line with the  timming mark on engine shroud both valves were closed on compression stroke the camshaft has not been removed since last time the engine ran getting realy frustrated now cannot think of any thing else to check  any further suggestions greatfully recived

Thanks
a verry (frustrated)
Steve

[dieselgman]

If everything reported is accurate... then re-seat both valves and try again. Suction in the exhaust indicates a very bad seal on the exhaust valve (seat).

dieselgman

[contaucreek]

2 things, exhaust valve leaking,l Oh and crank faster  

[Combustor]

                Just a thought,  when Contaucreek said "crank faster" it occurred to me to wonder whether your engine has an extension shaft on the flywheel and you are cranking from that end.
    Heard of a guy who bought a running engine at a sale and did what most would do, and put the handle on the flywheel end. Much cranking and swearing till someone suggested that he put the handle on the CAMSHAFT end, to gain enough crank speed for starting.
                Does your engine have an oil primer cup on the intake port?  If so, pull the cap and fill the cup with oil. replace cap to drop the measured amount into the intake.This usually helps to start a cold or stubborn motor. Regards,  Combustor.

[contaucreek]

Slowly bring it up on compression in a quiet environment and you will hear if its leaking.

[contaucreek]

Shouldnt that fuel lever be up and not under the catch to start ?

[dieselgman]

The fuel rack control should be in the 'excess fuel' position... fully counterclockwise, to start. Then returned to the run position after startup. The catch spring is for the shutdown 'fully clockwise' position for the control.

dieselgman