Follow up 14/1 project.

[selmawp]

Follow up on flywheel and crank problem, by now I have the engine completely
disassembled and took some better measurement as followed.

Crank Gibb slot 0.560 for both sides.

Flywheel on pump side 0.573

Other flywheel  0.575.

To correct this problem I am having 2 Gibb keys made to fit the slots.

Next BIG problem, the crank diameter where the flywheels fits is 2.123
The bore in flywheel is 2.130, besides being to big in diameter the service is
rougher than a corn cob, so that NEEDS to be machined. (See pix)
ON the other flywheel the bore is 2.128. This bore is nice and clean. Flywheels
are both 170.2 Lbs. so that is a blessing . I have not checked for balance yet, I think
it is better to wait for all the machining to be done.
In order to fix this my thought were, to have the crank welded with a wire feed welder
and than  have it ground on a crank grinder.(we have a machine shop in town that has one)
Before I tore it down I did not know if I was able to do it, do to the fact I did not know the
diameter of the crank at the TRB whits is 2.250 so I can still remove or install a bearing when needed.

Any thoughts or comments? Thanks Tony.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Wire feed welding on the cast iron flywheel doesn't sound like a good idea to me...
The rotational forces on flywheels are very high, and welding cast iron causes a lot of local stress where the weld material shrinks when it cools.
Usually acceptable welds require pre heating the part. A big massive part would need a lot of heat, held for a long time before, during and after the weld repair.
You should do some research before welding it. Also check out mechanical repair, like a sleeve or taper lock bushing.
Here is a link discussing welding a car flywheel:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/fabrication-cnc-laser-waterjet-plasma-welding-fab/welding-cast-iron-help-needed-170995/
I had similar experiences cleaning out and rebuilding my new LISTEROID, but my flywheels were OK. still, I locked them in with collars to hold the gib keys.
Good luck, keep us posted, and really, I hope you find a way to fix the bore on that flywheel that does not involve adding heat.

[bandmiller2]

Chief, Tony is talking about building up the crank and not the flywheels.What would be ideal is to bore the flywheels for a taperlock.Boreing those large heavy flywheels would require a large gap-bed lathe,not found under every bush.Anyone know what the tolerances were on the origional Listers.?A custom made tapered gib can take up many sins.John Deere had problems with their 50's era two cylinder diesels, The heavy flywheel clamped on a splined crank.The least bit of play and they would wollow themselves out in no time.Many tried to weld the crank to flywheel,a dismal failure.Tony probibly your idea of building up the crank and grinding it to fit the flywheels with a close fitting gib is as good as it can get,if done right. Frank C.

[cujet]

A big hammer and red loctite.

I'd be willing to bet that an accurate bushing could be machined and utilized in place of the sloppy fit. My thoughts are as follows. Machine a "T" bushing, with sufficient size to be robust. Machine the flywheel out to accommodate the bushing as a press fit. Bolt the flange of the "T" bushing to the flywheel.

Install conventionally with gib key and a big hammer.

[38ac]

Not sure how worried I would be about .006? I am a self taught machinist and don't have my machinist handbook handy to look up the final word on fit. I usually do the wiggle and fell test for such, LOL.  I did find the linked table that shows that to be in tolerance for general pratice class 2 fit on a 2" nominal shaft. On the large side but just within tolerance. That being said if I didn't like the fit welding the bore or shaft would not be my first choices. Not sure about your 14/1 but the originals used the same diameter all the way to the mains. cant build up the flywheel area large than the main bearing area. IF ( BIG IF) the Indians machined the flywheels they way they should be machined the bore was done first, then it was mounted on a mandrel to machine the O.D. The Gibb key p[pulls everything tight against the side away from the key. Chance the bore size and you will have run out on the OD?  Personally I would mount the flywheels and properly fit a Gibb key then measure the runout at the rims in both directions before I messed with the bores or shaft.

http://www.engineersedge.com/class_ii.htm

[Quinnf]

Seems to me you could simply shim the flywheel.  Shimming is a perfectly acceptable time-honored method for adjusting close fitting parts for machining imprecision. 

The gib key and hub and crankshaft keyways on both of my engines called for shimming on the order of 0.020" which I accomplished with brass shim stock.  You should be able to do the same by slipping shim stock between the flywheel/crankshaft.  You don't have to take up all of the slop, just as much as you can.  Once you drive the gib key home there is enough force applied and deformation of the hub all the parts will lock together.  Make sure there is no oil/grease on any of the surfaces, and an old trick to ensure that gib keys don't back out is to apply a little chalk dust to the gib key or keyway prior to driving it home. 

Here's what I did a few years ago.  http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=962.msg12839#msg12839

Quinn

[xyzer]

I have done a few machine jobs of this sort and it is hard to get a Listeroid built to perfection. I would fit the key for sure and assemble it. If you build up the shaft you will have to deal with some warpage, and then if you ever need to replace the flywheel it will be a problem. Getting a .003 thick shim stock to stay while you assemble it will be tricky but can be done and would be an acceptable way to adjust for the error. I would run it as is......mine have clearance and I have had no problems. If you are leery of it put some collar stops on it and if you ever hear an odd knock check the flywheels first.

[fabricator]

Yeah, what ^ he said, I'll guarantee that wheel is way more than .006 out of round anyway. You don't need a lathe to do this kind of work a mill with a big enough rotary table could make short work of it.