Author Topic: 14/1 new project need help.  (Read 8506 times)

selmawp

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14/1 new project need help.
« on: August 04, 2012, 11:30:56 PM »
Hi, got some more done on my 14/1 manage to remove both gibe keys with out braken or bending  ;D removed one flywheel the one on pump side and then it got ugly the bore in the flywheel is 8 thousends bigger than the crank and to me that is to much for a 150 lbs  plus  flywheel, any one has a fix for this? Now the good thing I found a brass idler gear inside (see pix) with what looks like a off set bolt. Since we are on the subject a retired machinist like to do this kind of work so if any one need a off set bolt let me know.  Thanks Tony Dutchman.http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7212&g2_serialNumber=2

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 01:36:24 AM »
I don't know squat, but could you use some .004 steel shim stock to wrap the shaft, carefully run the flywheel over the shaft & shim until the wheel is seated in the shaft shoulder, the shim is straight and the keyway clear, then drive home the key?
Or is there a compelling rule or reason why this is a bad idea?
On my 25/2, I have a starter ring gear and a vee belt pully butting the flywheel lock keys, just a belt & suspenders approach to keeping the flywheels from 'walking off'.
Although taper lock bushings are not really expensive, boring the flywheel concentric & straight could be a challenge. That would be the Cadillac solution?
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

fabricator

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 02:43:13 AM »
A lot depends on how and where you are taking your measurements, when it's in position on the crank with the key out does it have a really noticeable wobble when you grab the outside rim and wiggle it?
BioDiesel Brewer

OKFarmer

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012, 04:04:15 AM »
Aren't these flywheels a tapered fit with the gib key suring things up? As you remove the gib key the flywheel won't be tight to the crank. Right?

dieselgman

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 04:18:22 AM »
The key is tapered, but not the flywheel bores. The wedge fit of the key makes the assembly a single unit.

dieselgman
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Quinnf

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012, 05:03:57 AM »
Are you sure?  The keyways in all 8 of the 6-spoke flywheels I own are most definitely tapered. 

Quinn
Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

carlb23

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 12:57:23 PM »
Are you sure?  The keyways in all 8 of the 6-spoke flywheels I own are most definitely tapered. 

Quinn


Quinn, 

I believe what dieselgman is saying is that the bore on the flywheel is not tapered, he is not saying the keyway on the flywheel is not tapered.
just my 2 cents.

carl

dieselgman

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 05:05:50 PM »
Correct... sorry for the confusion. Sometimes these responses come off a bit quickly without much reflection.
Communications can be a bit tricky, no?

dieselgman
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selmawp

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 11:46:52 PM »
Hi shipchief, I like your idea, would not be easy the bore in the flywheel is about 5" deep, but can bee done.

Hi fabricator, went to the shop and put the flywheel back on mounted dial indicator and messsered 18 thousend movement. (See pix)

Don_Edwards

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 03:39:36 AM »
I really like the taperlock idea. Or even a new center section to accept them. I'd be tempted if I had the equipment.

I ended up making custom stepped gib keys to fit my mismatched key widths between the crank and flywheel. Then spent a couple hours each with a Sharpie and a Dremel hand fitting the taper. But I still have visions of finding one of my flywheels in the Kentucky hills.
Don Edwards

M61hops

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 11:54:54 AM »
Hi selmawp, welcome to our group!  I think shipchiefs' idea is the best solution and it should work just fine.  A little tricky to do but easier than anything else.  Yeah that's a lot of wobble and I'd expect you would have seen some run-out when the engine was running.  If you ever need to get machine work on that flywheel for a starter gear or something you get it bored for a taper bushing then.  I hope it runs true after you shim it.  If I made that flywheel I'd have been very careful to bore the center hole to the exact size and then mounted it on a spud that ran true, then turned the sides and flat O.D. of the rim.  I hope it runs true after you shim it because it may have been a  lose fit on what it was mounted on to turn the rim.  I don't know if a little run out would hurt anything at the speeds these things run as long as you put a spring tensioner on any belt if you run one from the flat of the rim.
I pray everyday giving thanks that I have one of the "fun" mental disorders!

selmawp

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 12:31:53 PM »
Good morning every one, I would like to add some facts that I have not mentioned before, the engine is new it has been sitting in my yard for 5 + years, after I removed gib key, the flywheel slipped off the crank with no resisting at all the crank surface was coated with oil so no rust, the other side I am working on it has some resisting, the plan is a total tear down, for the last 4-5 months I have been working on the head and got it finally to were I am happy with it, for progress pix look in Photo gallery under 3 angel valve Job.

Quinnf

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 03:48:36 PM »
Correct... sorry for the confusion. Sometimes these responses come off a bit quickly without much reflection.
Communications can be a bit tricky, no?

dieselgman

The confusion was mine.  Reading back through the entire thread, your response made sense.  I missed the OP's saying that the entire bore was oversized.  Frequently there is a little too much clearance between the gib key and the keyway, which was what I was expecting to read.  Shimming works fine to fix that. 

With an oversize bore, I think Shipchief's idear of shimming with shim stock is probably your best bet.  I think the easiest thing to do would be to insert some shim stock between the hub and crankshaft opposite the keyway.  Any clearance you can remove will help.  Assembling the flywheel to the shaft with no oil is important to keeping things in place.  Rub a little chalk dust between the gib key and keyway will help keep it in place without resorting to tapping it in so tightly.

Taperlock bushings would be fine, if there is enough meat left in the flywheel hub to avoid cracking.  Indian iron of unknown composition and the thought of all that iron spinning around sort of puckers one up.   :o

Quinn


Ashwamegh 6/1, PowerSolutions 6/1 "Kit" engine, and a Changfa R175a that looks like a Yanmar I once knew

bigblockengine9074

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 07:51:20 PM »
I don't know squat, but could you use some .004 steel shim stock to wrap the shaft, carefully run the flywheel over the shaft & shim until the wheel is seated in the shaft shoulder, the shim is straight and the keyway clear, then drive home the key?
Or is there a compelling rule or reason why this is a bad idea?
On my 25/2, I have a starter ring gear and a vee belt pully butting the flywheel lock keys, just a belt & nevada pools construction suspenders approach to keeping the flywheels from 'walking off'.
Although taper lock bushings are not really expensive, boring the flywheel concentric & straight could be a challenge. That would be the Cadillac solution?

This should work I don't see why it wouldn't.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 01:10:52 AM by bigblockengine9074 »

dieselgman

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Re: 14/1 new project need help.
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 08:24:25 PM »
taper lock is standard in the premium more modern open flywheel designs - i.e. Arrow etc..

I believe the real question about the Listeroid flywheel hub would be the potential for weakening it by removal of any extra casting around that hub.

This is what we would like to see:

This is a 40" flywheel on an Arrow C96 with standard taper lock bushing.

dieselgman
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