Guess who?

[Horsepoor]

Diesel fuel spilled, grease, oil, and dirt accumulation will be easy to spot on all that light colored paint. That certainly is a significant improvement on "mean green".

[AdeV]

there is nothing in a listeroid that requires the use of a cnc machine, there is nothing in  listeroid that a manual machine operated by a competent machinist  can't do as well as a cnc operator on a cnc machine, save for one thing...

that being mass production of parts in less time,  which for the purposes of building one off parts for an engine or two really turns out to take more time than the same process on a manual machine with a qualified machinist, and/or

There's actually one more thing that CNC is good for; machining complicated shapes. I'm not sure if there are any Lister[oid] parts which would actually require CNC, but there are surely parts which would benefit from CNC.

cnc also means anything from a laptop connected to a taig mini mill costing a few hundred dollars all the way up to those which are used by folks like Boeing, GM, and others and costing millions of dollars and that are operated by robots.

Yep, and there's the kicker. Besides - I didn't see any tooling in that lot which was for a CNC machine. R8 tooling is used on manual machines, because the tool length is not repeatable (depends on how tight you cinch up the drawbar). CNC machines need a different system, usually QC30 or ISO30/40/50. The indexer we see briefly is a manual one and would have limited use on a cnc mill.

He might have a CNC lathe, there's only a small amount of lathe stuff shown, but even then, with the size of chuck he shows I bet he actually has an old manual machine.

[mobile_bob]

my bet is the marathon head is chinese, look at the base

the flywheels perforated with holes supposedly from a computer balance
give me pause, especially 25" at 1000rpm.

i don't understand the need to move the engine on a slide? it would seem a better
system to move the alternator head.

his paint looks nice!  however why paint until done with fabrication?

i am not crazy about the frame system or the rubber mounts, and we all know how i feel about resilient mounts, so it has more to do with my not liking how he does it rather than doing it.

30kva generator does seem a bit excessive, and likely as stated would benefit
from a smaller head for increased efficiency. while the 30kva head is likely more efficient than a 10kva head, the added rotating mass likely offsets the difference.

and lastly, where is the epa certification?

bob g

[rleonard]

Bob, An added loss in running an oversize head is the much larger cooling fan.  It does take power to move air.  Granted it will run cool because the engine only has the power to pull about 4 KW.  The fan is sized to keep it cool at rated load under specified conditions.  This setup is moving a lot of air and generating noise for nothing.   There is a reason why we usually size system components.  I would be interested in his rational.

He is a talented fabricator and skilled machinist that has implemented many good ideas.  But man!  He has a real vendetta toward anyone that is a LEF member.

Bob

[ronmar]

the flywheels perforated with holes supposedly from a computer balance
give me pause, especially 25" at 1000rpm.

They gave me pause also.  I was wondering why so many holes(maybe I ask why too much...), so I went back and looked at the video again.  Those wheels do not have cast in counterweights, so are for an engine that is internally balanced.  He said the crank journal diameter has been increased from 2" to 2.5".  Did this change force the removal of the internal counterweights?  If so, look where the holes are drilled.  The keyway is pointing up in the video, so the crank journal should be down(at least that is how it is on my single). The holes are from 8Oclock to 12Oclock, so if the journal is heavier, or if the internal weights were removed, shouldn't there be more weight in the 12 oclock area?  Even if the keyway is different on this crank, and the journal is also at 12Oclock, I would think the holes to lighten should be centered around the same angle as the journal to increase the flywheel weight on the side opposite the journal...  Dosn't make much sense to me, I guess the proof is in how it runs...

From what I have seen of indian cast iron, I wouldn't want to be liable for it with all those additional holes...

[dieselgman]

I believe he said that the rod journal had been oversized to 2.750" to fit "Cat" bearing shells. (As if that name alone meant something special... who knows who is making those bearings these days in a global economy - most likely India and China.) At any rate, the much larger journal diameter should handle loads and stresses better as long as the lubrication issue is fully resolved. I have experienced catastrophic bearing failures in large Caterpillar engines (with original factory bearings) mainly from lubrication failure. Willem claims this to be a fully roller bearing engine, but the conrod bearings are plain-shell by his description. What about running gear oil in these type bearings? Roller for sure will do well with that lubrication, not sure about the con-rod types in use. So I wonder if there is any historical or scientific (engineering) background to support this particular idea?

dieselgman

[carlb23]

1

[mobile_bob]

from experience

gear oils have extreme pressure additives, most of which are hard on white metal, brass and copper alloys. they eat them up over time.

i don't know what he is using to lube the lower brg shells, if it is still the original
drip lube system the use of the cat shells might well be ill advised even with motor oils. the reason being the cat shells are made to be pressure fed and not run in a starved environment of  the original top hole feed design. also modern brgs shells have very thin white metal over a higher strength middle layer because of the relatively high power density they run under.  the splash lube system without full lube filtration allows particulate matter to circulate and enter the lube holes in the top of the rod journal. with the thinner white metal the particulates instead of being fully embedded will stand proud of the surface and wear the hell out of the brg journal. so... assembly cleanliness and very clean and sealed castings, "and" very good maintenance in a clean running environment is going to be mandatory for longevity of this system.

there are other more technical differences in the metallurgy of the white metal layer between those designed for spash unfiltered lube and full pressure/filtered lube that relate to wear characteristics.

bottom line the use of the cat shells might not be an improvement at all, in all likelihood it might be they won't perform as well over time, depending on how he feeds oil to these brgs. without knowing a lot more about his modifications, i would not pay a premium over the oem product.

ymmv

bob g

[ronmar]

You are correct, I misunderstood that part, he did say 2.75". I also thought he was talking about the rod journal, but he said the crank journal, so the main roller bearings have been upsized and not the big end rod bearing?  That actually makes more sense as if you oversized the rod journal, I think you would need a bigger rod to support that... Maybe he used a cat rod, which would explain the cat bearings?

But now i am really confused about the flywheel metal removed.  If I am guessing the hole sizes correctly, that is somewhere in the vicinity of  4 1/4 cubic inches of cast iron, or about 1.12 pounds removed from that one wheel...  That is a LOT of weight...

[38ac]

Bob I agree with all you said about bearings, dirt and lubrication.  In the originals bearings were not a problem and the lubricating oil was vastly inferior to what we have available now. IN my opinion the problem with Indian engines was and still is a combination of contamination and bad machine work and the single sump no oil pump simplification.  The bearings themselves are just innocent victims of abuse and Cat bearings wont take it any better than the original set up. If they last longer it is because he did  the machone work right and cleaned the engine of filth and the sump is kept at the correct level not because the insert are better. His balancing deal is nothing short of frightening to me. I just returned form and engine show and looked at every engine and pulley that wasn't turning and ALL all balanced by material removal from the rims or the old engines have steel cups bolted the light side that I am told all filled with lead shot. I am not a scientist but I cam folllow general practice as it has been done since spoked flywheels and pulleys were invented. NODODY but Willem drill spokes or webs please don't do it at home. Willems stuff isn't all bad. It is a curious mixture of good, bad and pure whatever.  He runs his own railroad, that's  for sure.

[ronmar]

More info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrVksuMZtNk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't think his cooling system will thermosiphon like that...

[mobile_bob]

looks like a tough way to get effective thermosiphon established to me too.

not sure the advantage of the 10, 20 or 30 gallons of oil capacity either, that oil will soon turn to sludge for lack of sufficient heat to boil off the condensation.

he tires me,  time for me to do something productive.

in parting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzYzMy1Teak&feature=relmfu

anyone get contacted from this guy?  anyone call an atty? 

he is a pissed off dude ain't he.

bob g

[xyzer]

Hmmm.....big boots....

[Stan]

Aw you guys, now you've gone and scared him away yet again.   All this "thrashing around in the bushes", none of you hunt much do you? 

I must admit, every few years this game is amusing. 
Stan

[Quinnf]

Oh, why bother?