Bakery needs "Nudge" or STOP me now.

[dieselgman]

Brady,

To give a 100% tested option, we should assemble and test a unit at our shop. I am in the Alaska bush for summer maintenance/repair - 7 weeks in the field. I will have to tackle sometime after that.

dieselgman

[M61hops]

Welcome to the forum Keystone!  By now you realize you are talking about a sizeable investment to build your setup?  I would suggest having a water cooled engine so you could reclaim as much heat as possible to help offset the cost of this project.  With careful engineering you might come out slightly ahead in the long run with co-generation if you have a need for heat in your overall operations.  Just wondering if you have natural gas to your site already?  I wish you good luck and I hope you have fun with this project!           Leland

[Keystone]

Dieslelgman...I am curious about your Alaska bush runnings; you mention maintenance/repair...are you servicing listers in the oil fields?

M61hops...investment or economic Russian Roulette?? The goal of independence is less economically driven, and more a need to satisfy an urge that just won't go away. Reclaiming heat may not offer much offset, as I will be running engine only 2-3 hours daily. I am looking to place boiler in brick oven smoke stack to capture heat. I do have access to natural gas, but making plans as if I am totally off the (energy) grid.

Earlier in this thred...Mark (millman56) suggested... This may not be what you want to hear but your needs would probably be better served by an older decent quality  1500 Rpm 20-25 Kva  genset,   keep the levels topped up and change the oil regularly and your`e cooking.I would like to explore this suggested option a bit further. Are there some gensets out there? Specific recommendations are welcomed, including new ones. And added opinions on comparison of suggested genset compared to lister/generator... for cost, durability, upkeep? I realize there is little comparison when factoring in the romance of "chug...chug" music.

[dieselgman]

I keep a couple of school districts running... 18 remote villages where they have to provide their own power. Rural Alaska big time, all fly-in. We have Cummins, Detroit, Caterpillar, John Deere, Lister sets from 15 to 120kW. About 35 in all I believe.

No antiques out here... sometimes things can get a bit challenging, when things go wrong it happens in clusters. Extreme weather and such. Summer is for Preventive measures and that is my primary job. If done well, we don't have any crisis happening in the dead of winter. Each site typically will have 2 sets with redundant support systems.

On to your query about what is around in small gensets... we see 25kW Isuzu sets as pretty solid - 1800 rpm , also a number of Caterpillar Cummins and others... also some Lister stuff, but I would stay with air-cooled on those newer Lister sets.

dieselgman

[Keystone]

Dieselgman...I'm sure you have collected a few stories about your experiences in Alaska; and overall, your passion for engines has provided you with a means to be of service...very nice.

Thanks for the nod toward genset brands, Isuzu especially seems to have a nice collection (good fuel efficiency), They even have a 14 kW that I think would almost match the power you would kick out of your 30/2. Of course, the convenience comes with bit of hefty price. My search for clean adequate used gensets has not been so lucky; so far...too small, too big, too hammered, too much.

So, hereby I make one more plea to reach out to folks in this forum...I am looking for genset (12 kW- 15 kW, but as much as 25 kW) and would love to find a good used set that would be home in a loving Utah bakery. Hope abounds...

[dieselgman]

Perkins is as solid as they come, and a few other Asian brands (Mitsubishi, Yanmar, Kubota) are good. finding one with low-hours and reasonably priced - that is the trick. If they are great, they are not that often for sale. Larger sizes are somewhat easier to lay hands on though. In general, stay away from anything older than 15 years unless the circumstances are exceptional. Parts and service can become problematic in some cases.

Chevrolet small-blocks , Lister CS - standards that have a very wide sweep of influence (both in decades of stability and breadth of distribution around the world) and have considerable parts interchange as well as support, this is why I am a Lister enthusiast - and these facts bode very well for their functionality into an uncertain and likely unstable future. 

dieselgman

[Keystone]

Maybe you can touch on durability...The Isuzu diesel 14 kW is rated for 30,000 hours. In separate conversation, a forum member mentioned that 25/2 would likely churn 2,000 hours before need to re-service engine. What about your 18/1 or 30/2? And might you have access to a 20/1?

[dieselgman]

We have quite a few of the Isuzu 4LE 25kW rentals that failed around 10,000 to 15,000 hours, some less than that - 7,000 hours. Still a pretty good track record overall though.
Isuzu design not likely to do well with any sort of alternative fuel except for biodiesel. Parts are limited and expensive.

The Lister decarb recommendation is for carbon cleanup only, highly variable and dependent on fuels used and loading etc.. A decarb job on a Lister is a fairly simple matter. A different ballgame than the Asian diesels as far as maintenance. Longevity for the simple Lister design is almost guaranteed with a good maintenance regime.

dieselgman

[cgwymp]

I'd like to know more about this 20kW unit:
http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engine-generators/20-kw-generator-192.html

[Thob]

Those Detroit Diesels are huge, heavy, noisy, but very durable.  They are two cycle and use a blower to force air into the engine.  They aren't the greatest at fuel economy.  You can get used and refurbished units (and more info) here:

http://www.affordablepower.com/

and here:

 http://www.emerson2-71gm.com/

[dieselgman]

+1 on durable, but also +1 on being a fuel hog. And look out when it comes time to replace anything on these. We still run a couple of the larger 4 and 6 cylinder 2-cycle units in the Alaska villages, but they are totally obsolete now and no longer being repaired when they break due to cost and availability issues.

We love a solid piece of American craftsmanship, just not so much the high servicing and fuel costs.

dieselgman

[bandmiller2]

It pains me to see the Detroit 2 cycle diesels pushed into history.I have spent my whole life working on them first Navy,truck fleet,and 31 years as a fire service mechanic.Alas Dieselgman is correct parts are a problem,before I retired I had to replace a burned valve on an 8-71 and had a hard time finding one.Every jerkwater garage that serviced trucks used to stock detroit parts as most covered many models.They are/were a marvel of engineering and adaptibility.I would not be afrade of running a good one,you may have to dig a little deeper for parts. Frank C.

[Rom]

I have 2 671s and 2 8v53s and get most of my parts from these folk

http://www.dieselpro.com/

Located in Miami, they seem to have a good selection. Piston and liner kits are aftermarket though.

Rom

[Tom]

We've got a fire engine with a 575hp detroit v8 that we're getting rid of. That engine is fast!

[dieselgman]

Yowsers! That is big enough to crank that bakery! - and also break the bank on fuel costs! 

dieselgman