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Author Topic: KOEL 8/1 Project  (Read 57590 times)

OKFarmer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2012, 03:32:55 AM »
Progress has slowed on this project. We are prepping for planting wheat, school starting, and last of summer activities goin on. I'm tired!

I worked on the cooling some more. I got the fittings for the head and jug installed and I have a Murphy switch guage for temperature. BTW the guage was only $37 bucks at the Versatile dealership. Double that from Murphy resellers online. Weird.... Here's a pic of cooling:



I've also started to work on the Starter/Generator mounting bracket. I've picked up a serpentine pulley and belt for it. The bracket is finished. I just need to get a tensioning bracket figured out for the top ear on the Starter/Generator. Any ideas?



OKFarmer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2012, 04:08:31 AM »
Got the Starter/Generator bracket welded on and painted. Starter/Generator is on, belt on and tight, and I tried it with the jumper cables. Works great! Still need to mount the solenoid, regulator, and start button.





Ready for battery, and to move it to the shed and anchor to the floor. New doghouse and a few other goodies arrive from Tom at Central Georgia generator this week. I'm going to have a remote doghouse and control panel mounted on the gen shed wall. Plan to keep all that stuff away from the vibration.

xyzer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2012, 05:37:44 AM »
OK,
Are you going to mount the radiator with the cooling tubes horizontal or vertical? In my travels I have found the coolant hoses will transfer any minor or major engine movement to the raditor tanks causing a worry spot. A down loop or a dog leg lets the hose flex instead of the radiator.
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OKFarmer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2012, 02:34:46 PM »
xyzer,

That radiator was made to mount them horizontal. If I flip it to vertical I think the cap will still work, but it makes the in the out, and the out the in. Probably doesn't matter though does it?

Gonna mount the radiator to the wall. Not sure what you mean on the coolant hoses. I thought Dursley wanted a direct shot from the top of the head to the radiator without any loops.I did think I would have that top hose kind of come straight up, and then curve towards the radiator constantly going uphill all the way. Will that work?

xyzer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2012, 04:27:24 PM »
If the distance to the radiator from the engine is in feet and not inches there will probably not be a problem.
This is my first shot at it and the engine movement jammed at the radiator.


I had to do something before it cracked the radiator and my only choice was to put a loop in it.


Beware that the tanks on the newer radiators need a larger water reserve. If you loose any water it will break the thermal siphon and not circulate unless you have a circulation pump. Many add an overflow tank to keep the water above the return inlet to keep the thermosiphon going. There are many ways to skin this cat....I'm sure others will chime in.

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Rom

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2012, 05:13:42 PM »
A small thing I noticed. Constant drive starter.

I was talking with Chris R a few days ago, and he has a similar setup, but his starter-generator is running off the A/C alternator rather than main flywheel for gear reduction. What he found was that the commutator wears rather rapidly being driven all the time. Working in the golf cart industry, I have seen motors starting to wear out faster than usual. Most replacement brush sets I have been getting are made in India actually and I figure they are too hard.

I have been looking into one way bearings to install in the pulley to allow the starter to stop to reduce wear when used as a starter for a lister type. Havent decided on a model to try out yet.

I do see that the OP is using an updated version of the Hitachi-style motors that most carts use. The brushes are a little more than double the size of the standard rig, hopefully this will help with brushes burning the commutator by having a larger contact surface.

Over the years I've noticed brushes going from a nice back carbon color to a more copper color, and I think you will find this starter will have similar brushes.

Just throwing it out there, I have only heard of one failure of a starter-generator tied to a lister, but it might be something to watch.

Rom

38ac

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2012, 05:17:59 PM »
What XYZER said about the radiators and supply tank X2.

An option is to use a radiator designed for thermosyphon which will have a built in supply of water above the top hose. I use radiators from John Deere LUC power units. They are plentiful, cheap and not too large.

Deere LUC radiator on one of my 6/1 engines. Notice the position of the top hose and built in coolant reserve above it.
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Quinnf

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2012, 07:46:32 PM »
A small thing I noticed. Constant drive starter.

[snip] Rom

I've been thinking the same thing.  They're available off of Amazon.com for cheap.  But I was told there were wear issues, too.  So I've been thinking of using a magnetic clutch off an auto air conditioning compressor, available cheap from the junkyard.  But that involves turning a tapered and keyed shaft to adapt to it, so at some point it starts to make sense to simply use an auto starter and be done with it. 

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OKFarmer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2012, 07:46:47 PM »
38ac, are your sourcing those dear parts at new? Or salvage? I'm assuming when referring to Deere Power Units you must live in irrigation country?

fabricator

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2012, 01:48:51 AM »
Are you thinking that belt drive starter will start the engine under compression?
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38ac

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2012, 02:42:43 AM »
38ac, are your sourcing those dear parts at new? Or salvage? I'm assuming when referring to Deere Power Units you must live in irrigation country?

Nope, I am in Ohio,  the LUC is the power unit version of the "L" 2 cylinder tractor.  They powered many small combines, choppers, blowers etc before tractors had live PTO on them. Lots of the power units have had the engines removed to put in tractors. The radiator is differant from the tractor so seldom get used. I put want ad out on a couple tractor sites and got 20 responces. I paid $75 for the ones I got. Try to get them from drier areas  like Texas and north to minimize rot. You will need adapters to get down to 1" pipe thread. I just machined some slugs that fit inside the inlet and outlet, cleaned the rust from them and JB Welded them in place. Probably other ways to get same result.

Link to a good place to put an ad, Yesterdays Tractors.  http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/clasquery.pl
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OKFarmer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2012, 03:27:16 AM »
Fabricator, I am nottrying to belt start through the compression stroke. Solenoid on the decompression lever, and solenoid on the fuel rack.  I'll be able, with a timer, to decompress after shut down and let her coast the last few rounds. Although I think with an idler on the top belt it just might do it, but I don't want to burn her up.

38ac, interesting on the power units. I'll look into that ASAP. This area in Oklahoma we've been in tillage for 100 years, so I've probably seen those around and just didn't think of it!

Quinnf, Some starter/generators I've learned have more torque than others, so be sure you know what you are buying. Also don't buy a cheap Chinese replacement. The 1984 Club Car cart had a VERY torquey little starter on it.  I had them send me and extra set of brushes with it. They are like the old brushes of the past. Made from a soft lead-like substance that isn't lead. I've seen the newer copper looking brushes that heat and discolor. These are not those.

The company I posted earlier where I bought the starter/generator sold me the solenoid, external regulator, and extra brushes along with it as a match set.  Great people!

OKFarmer

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #87 on: August 25, 2012, 03:38:54 AM »
So the biggest problem at this point is that doghouse on the ST head. That thing is awful! Shake, rattle, and rolling all over the place. I took it off, and low and behold it has these horrible excuses for rubber "isolators" under it. No wonder the crazy thing is shaking all over!  I mounted an aluminum/steel box on top, drilled holes to mount it. Drilled it to attach the bus bar and rectifier and all is MUCH better. Found a bare wire in the process, patched it up, and now I get steady values on the multi-meter from the head. 242 volts.



Started on the control box I am building that will be monted on or near the generator. It has a push button start switch, Murphy Switchgauge for temperature, Ammeter for the battery, 12volt system on/off switch and dummy light (so far anyway).



Got the Doghouse in from Central Georgia Generator. For the money, you can't beat it. It will be mounted on the wall, and an 4AWG 3 wire cable comes from the doghouse on the ST head to this one.  Also have to bring a couple of 10AWG wires for the AVR in the remote doghouse.



Question:
I have three wires coming from the doghouse on the ST head. The outside to posts 120v legs each (or 240v across them) and one wire for the center two lugs that are common for the 120 volt legs.  When I get to the doghouse from CGG there are three CT's in there. Then to a breaker that has three lugs or poles.  So do all three wires pass through the appropriate CT's and then to all three lugs on that breaker? Tom's instructions say to wire for single of three phase. but get a little vague. Anyone able to clarify any of this for me? I can add pics tomorrow if needed.

Thanks,

OKFarmer

Thob

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #88 on: August 25, 2012, 03:50:45 AM »
The wire on center two lugs that is common will be your neutral wire.  You do NOT want any switches or breakers in the neutral wire.  You DO want breakers in the two 120V wires.  You should be able to simply leave the third breaker disconnected.
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dieselgman

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Re: KOEL 8/1 Project
« Reply #89 on: August 25, 2012, 04:07:36 AM »
I note that you might have a crimped (blue) wire connection there... I would recommend you use only soldered connections for those leads as they are subject to high levels of vibration stress. Also add some protection for those wires where they exit the generator case to avoid direct contact and chafing with the metal case. Vibration can be destructive to the wiring insulation if it is not carefully protected.

I see your project is coming along nicely! Great work!

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