Author Topic: KOEL 8/1 Project (Read 57775 times)

OKFarmer · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:05:43 AM »

Making some progress. Going to stitch it all together permanently now:

dieselgman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2012, 10:59:51 AM »

Looking good!

That will keep her stationary!

dieselgman

Tom · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2012, 06:31:22 PM »

+1 on da gman

OKFarmer · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:10:21 AM »

I put the frame down on the shop floor tonight and set the 8/1 on it and tightened up the nuts. I started her up. No hopping. But it does want to scoot around unless I stand on the frame. I shut her down and did a test. I can scoot it around myself. The metal on concrete is like a sled runner. So it may not be that bad once the sled is bolted to something, but I did think it would be more stable than that. I'm sure outside in the dirt it would've just sat there, but don't know.

Any thoughts?

dieselgman, weren't these KOEL's supposed to be pretty smooth? Somewhat ready to go? I see holes drilled into the flywheel and weights hammered in. So someone made some attempt at balance.

OKFarmer · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:21:36 AM »

Also tonight when I got home from work I find the family sitting in the dark. It's 111 out and the power has been off for 45 minutes. I call the power company and report it, shut the appropriate breakers off in the breaker box, and go out and start the 10kW welder, then throw the transfer switch. With this combination of breakers I can run the main floor central air.

Three hours later the rural cooperative comes back on. Twenty minutes after that a VERY small thunderstorm rolls through. And BAM the power is back off again. This time for two hours. So back to the generator. Set the breakers. Throw the transfer switch. Ugh!!!!!

We are back on the cooperative and did get a MUCH needed .4" of rain.

I bought the 8/1 and 5kW as a bit of test. I'll use to pump a well and run the shop when the cooperative is down. I know that when it is 111 out I HAVE to be able to run some AC. So I know if I build up one of these rigs to replace the welder I am going to have to have 12-15kW capability. This all electric home is a hog for power. It would take some significant modification to heat water off of a lister-type. I can easily generate and have a huge barn to build a power generation room in that is right next to the cooperative's pole and my switch. Am I still jumping in the right direction if I go that big?

Frustrated with the cooperative!!!!!!!!!!!

dieselgman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:24:34 AM »

We ran them on the pallet bottoms and all seemed pretty smooth. Still could always take some fine tuning and finer balancing though, no doubt.

Any rotating mass will tend to move around on a slippery surface... rpm also makes a difference, you may find it smoother at different speeds.

dieselgman

dieselgman · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:34:00 AM »

Sounds like you are getting a lot of justification to go self-sufficient for your power plant. Whether or not the Lister clone is the "right direction", depends a lot on your personal objectives, abilities, time involvements, and many other variables of course. I can offer that you should be able to run a 15kW head from one of the large twins - 30/2, and service that power hog house with a margin for overloads.

dieselgman

Horsepoor · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2012, 08:45:33 AM »

I have a GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm (I estimated 17 to 18 hp at this rpm) hooked to an ST 15 generator head. I know the generator head is over kill but it lives a happy life at the the prime movers maximum output at 11,200 watts. If I ran the 20/2 at 1000 rpm, which I could do, since I have a Mike Montieth two step pulley on the ST head, then I could get closer to 15 kW the generator head capability. This is my south Florida hurricane plan for operations.

I also have an all electric house with a well 2 HP well pump for the horses, etc. Here is what I did. I removed the 4,500 watt top and 4,500 watt bottom heating element from my 80 gallon electric hot water heater. When one of these heater elements came on, about 50% of my generator capacity got blown, to say nothing of the electric cloths dryer. I replaced the top one with a 1,750 Watt and the bottom with a 1,500 watt. Instead of 62 gallons of hot water heated every hour, it now takes 7 hours to heat all 80 gallons. This is not a problem for our usage patten. My 20/2 has no problem starting and running a downstairs 2 ton AC unit, a 2 1/2 ton upstairs AC unit, well pump, washer, TV, two large refrigerators, one small office unit and a patio deep freezer, plus all the usual small stuff. If the wife wants to run the electric dryer, one of the AC units must be disabled. The most critical thing for me was changing out those duel 4,500 watt hot water heater elements.

Now at night while everyone is sleeping. I engage a Metro 6/1 running at 800 rpm hooked to 7.5 ST. Overkill on the generator head again but it too lives a happy life. This results in about 4,000 watts but it does well in the 3,000 watt range. I run night time lights, TV, fan and ONE AC system with the hot water heater turned off. The generator can start the well pump and fill the pressure tank but it is at its maximum. Well this is how I did it.

OKFarmer · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:21:26 PM »

Incredibly GREAT information Horsepoor!!!!

Your house sounds just like mine! Almost exactly!!

Well it sounds like I will continue on my journey based on what Dieselgman has said, and you have said. I'll have an 8/1 with an ST5 for overnights. And a 20/2 or 30/2 for the heavey stuff. I had read your hot water tank story on here somewhere else. Glad you reminded me again here. I'll look into the lighter elements. A guy could just keep the 1750's on hand and swap out when needed (long-term generation). That doesn't take 10 minutes to do. Hmmmm.......

My power hogs are dryer, range top, oven, hot water tank, heat grids in central heat sides of the units, then compressor/air handlers in the units. I can, and often do, heat with wood in the winter though.

xyzer · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:02:32 PM »

Quote from: OKFarmer on July 20, 2012, 04:10:21 AM

I put the frame down on the shop floor tonight and set the 8/1 on it and tightened up the nuts. I started her up. No hopping. But it does want to scoot around unless I stand on the frame. I shut her down and did a test. I can scoot it around myself. The metal on concrete is like a sled runner. So it may not be that bad once the sled is bolted to something, but I did think it would be more stable than that. I'm sure outside in the dirt it would've just sat there, but don't know.

Any thoughts?

dieselgman, weren't these KOEL's supposed to be pretty smooth? Somewhat ready to go? I see holes drilled into the flywheel and weights hammered in. So someone made some attempt at balance.

OK....sounds like you have a well behaved setup. I have gone through the same drill with 2 6/1's that when pulled from the crate would rattle my 6,000# tractor with the loader holding the frame in position. You will get the sliding or hopping with the steel on concrete. After balancing my two 6/1's I found there is a transition from hopping to sliding and the sweet spot with no movement was impossable to achieve. I have never got my frames to be perfectly flat after welding and my concrete floors are another story. In my book and the way you describe it you are very well balanced. The way it behaves will change slightly when you put a load on it. I bet if you slip some rubber pads between the floor and frame all will be good! 3 points is a plus. Mine do great on dirt or grass but cement if not shimmed right will move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QmWXNo-Gmg&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOxPXGn6BWo&feature=relmfu

Horsepoor · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:25:41 PM »

Correction: I used a 1500 watt element for the top and a 1250 watt element for the bottom in the hot water heater. It takes 3 hrs to reheat the top 40 gallons to 120F and 4 more hours to reheat the bottom 40 gallons. Works fine for us during emergency operations. If fact, I leave the small elements installed all year. Works fine for us.

Next, switch off the 50A electric range and oven. Hello microwave or BBQ grill.

I like the 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm (estimated 17 to 18 hp), which keeps the generator head loaded up during the hot south Florida days to around 5K to 8K, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. Diesels ideally need to be loaded at about 80% when possible. I switch over to the twin around 0700 hrs, engage the hot water heater and second AC unit, and announce the laundry room is now open. This continues until late in the evening when all family members who are in the evacuation zones are ready for bed (i.e. 2200 hrs). The Metro at 800 rpm can handle one 2 1/2 ton AC unit (soft start CAPs), TV, minimal night time lights, refrigerators, and an occasional water pump start. Next time I will probably keep the water pump off. I have a 60 gallon pressure tank, that's a lot of toilet flushes, and showers will just have to wait for the day shift twin.

I suggestion you consider a down rated 20/2 or a 16/2 for your prime mover. Especially, if your needs are in the winter. I have been reading about these 16/1s and other big single cylinder tumpers with great interest. The simplicity of the singles is nice.

OKFarmer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:42:07 PM »

XYZer, I love your electric start setup. Do you have the starter part number and where you got the rubber wheel and part number? I can fab something similiar. Very clean slick setups. Most impressive! What is the story on your copper tanks? Do you play in copper? They are very sharp looking!

Horsepoor, that is what we do is shut the ranges off and use the microwave and grill/smoker. 1500watt and 1250watt noted! You have any pics of your setups?

Appreciate all the help, affirmations, and ideas everyone!

OKFarmer

xyzer · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:32:30 PM »

OK,
I used a GM smallblock starter and not sure which one but they made millions of them. I removed the Bendix and adapted the rubber wheel I got from McMaster Carr. I would have to do a bit of looking to find a p/n. I fabricated a new nose piece like the picture below. I bought a bunch off copper off eBay before it got expensive and found it easy to work with before I owned a tig welder. I had access to a shear and brake at the time, they were easy to make or fix. But no I don't work in copper but do play

. Actually I work for a living with Tungsten ,Tantalum, and Molybdenum.

BruceM · « **Reply #28 on:** July 21, 2012, 02:19:34 AM »

Dave, I really like your starter nose-piece design with the outboard shaft/roller support. It's a gem.

xyzer · « **Reply #29 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:46:33 AM »

Thanks Bruce!....I had a heck of a time mounting the starter.....I did it way after I was done building the frames. I have 2 frames..One for the motor and generator and then resiliently mounted to another. I mounted the starter on the base frame so it didn't shake or rattle if I had mounted it to the engine frame...worked fine but the next time I am going to mount it to the engine frame...

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