Author Topic: powering house  (Read 24937 times)

macgyvermike

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powering house
« on: July 11, 2012, 09:29:19 PM »
Thanks for the info on last post
From that info it would be safe to say that it is unrealistic to believe my set up would be big enough to run my house.12 hp St10 .?


Tom

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Re: powering house
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 12:23:57 AM »
It depends on what you need to run your house. I run mine quite happily on a Listeroid 6/1 - ST5. If you have an all electric house and a wife with the carbon footprint of godzilla maybe not. Tell us about your current electric bill's usage numbers and what kinds of large loads you have.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

ronmar

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Re: powering house
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 01:43:13 AM »
+1 to what Tom wrote. Tell us a bit more about your needs.

If it is for backup power, the question you have to ask yourself, is "what can I live without, and for how long?"  I have a 6/1-ST5 genset good for right around 3KW sustained power output.  I am all electric, but use a pellet stove for heat which when running pulls about 300 watts to power blower and auger.  Mine is used as a backup power plant, and I can run all the basic necessities which include the following.  Reefer, Freezer, Well pump, pellet stove, entertainment center, dishwasher on air dry only and any/all lighting. I can even manage the occasional 1KW space heater in kitchen or bathroom as my typical average load is well under 2KW(lights entertainment and pellet with reefers and freezers cycling as needed).  Cooking is a bit of a juggle as we shutdown power to well pump and reefer/freezer to allow range cooktop use(2 small or one large burner) and microwave to be used.  The oven is a stretch and would probably have to shutoff the pellet stove as well to maintain the load, but again mine is for backup power, and we can live for a good long time without a conventional oven.  I can basically manage all the normal items except the electric hot water heater(4.5KW) and electric dryer(11KW). 

I have a heat exchanger instead of a radiator on the engine and it delivers 120F water out of the secondary loop which will keep the hot water tank topped with hot water.  My avitar is a diagram of my system. You can do a lot with a full tank of hot water. 2 loads of laundry, 2 quick showers, wash dishes ect... In fact with the ammount of water my washer uses, I think the heat input would keep up with output so I could probably do laundry all day long.  I just couldn't dry it that fast:)  At a 2KW load, I get about 1/2 GPM of 120F water, so a 50 gallon HW tank will take about 100 minutes to recharge. Since my average load is less than 2KW, a fully charged tank of water will take over two hours.  Once the tank is full of hot water the water exiting the bottom of the tank starts to get hot. This water returns to the heatex via a fan-coil unit(radiator). During the winter this will cool the water going back to the gen and put that heat into the house.  During the summer when I don't need heat, the fan-coil gets connected in the loop outside to direct the excess heat outside.  Ironically I can harvest about the same ammount of waste heat from the generator that the pellet stove puts out, so when running the generator the pellet stove can be shut off.  Powering the pellet stove and the well pump was the prime reason for building the gen in the first place:)

So I can live quite comfortably on a 3KW generator.  If I averaged a load of 2KW, I will consume right at 0.25 gallons per hour or 4 hours per gallon.   Running say 16 hours a day, a 55 gallon drum of diesel would last me 14 days... But since I average less than 2KW(even less with the pellet stove shutoff), I am forcasting closer to 20 days for a 55 gallon barrel of fuel, which I always have at least one of on hand...
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

bandmiller2

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Re: powering house
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 01:52:08 AM »
Mike is this genset for backup power or off grid.If its for power outages you should get along fine.Refrigerator,freezer,furnace,sump pump and some lights you should be golden.Trouble will come with things like electric range,air cond.,electric clothes drier.Figure your loads and your priorities. Poly "V" belt around the flywheel to as large a pulley on the st-10 that will give you 1800rpm. Frank C.
Fast cheap and easy are seductive sirens,its a rare man that does not court their pleasures.

macgyvermike

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Re: powering house
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 04:13:40 AM »
OK here is the info you asked for

The idea of this genset is off grid either totally or partially.
Last months power usage was 1354 kWh
I use propane for stove, and tankless water heaters. 
major appliances include refer, freezer, cloths washer, dryer (not using in summer), dish washer, microwave, wood stove blower (primary heat) pool pump, submersible well pump, Air conditioner.

current set up is 12 Hp Lister 1000 rpm, ST10 gen head coupled together using 12 inch pulley on engine, 6 inch pulley on gen head, two B belts. 220 AVR on gen head, back wired through 60amp breaker using #6 wire.

I have thought about changing the belting to the fly wheel and getting a larger pulley for the gen head, will have to modify my frame to move the gen head.

With current set up I can start and run air con as long as nothing Else is running. With air, refer, well and some lights i can not run pool. ( I know Priorities right ;) ).
if anything Else is running I can not start Air, it will literally shut down engine.

Primary reason for building this gen set was for off grid use and to own a Lister. 

ronmar

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Re: powering house
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 05:27:11 AM »
Having the major appliances on gas makes things a little easier.  AC is tough, and if you must have that capacity, the only suggestion I could make is two smaller units.  The biggest hit is the startup surge current load which is far greater than the running load.  A pair of smaller units might be able to function as long as they were interlinked so that they couldn't both try and start at the same time. If set with proper lead/lag temperature control, you might even find that once the high heat has been dissipated, you might only need one unit to maintain a comfortable temperature saving you fuel in the long run  For that matter, it is often a matter of timing, and some added control on any other high output cyclic loads to keep multiple loads from trying to start at the same time.  Or if running shutdown briefly to allow enough startup capacity for the AC,  might make things work with a smaller generator...   
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

LowGear

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Re: powering house
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 07:26:41 AM »
Is there some way to hook up an inverter with a couple of batteries to handle the AC start-up needs?

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bandmiller2

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Re: powering house
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2012, 11:53:34 AM »
Mike, don't know what part of the country you live in,but up here in the northeast I have one small AC unit in our bedroom.Most of us can hack the heat if we get a good nights sleep.A newer small efficient AC does not draw as much power and if undersized will stay on compressor mode and you won't get as much cycling.Really the grid is a bargan,its not easy to roll your own. Frank C.
Fast cheap and easy are seductive sirens,its a rare man that does not court their pleasures.

Tom

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Re: powering house
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2012, 06:10:23 PM »
Wow, that's 45 kw per day you used that month. The AC and pool are sucking up a lot of power. Our off-grid home uses about 15 kw a day here and the 3.4 kw PV array generates all of our power most of the year.

If you really want to go off-grid, you'll need to invest in a large battery bank and inverters. That way you can run the genset at it's most efficient load, lets say around 5 kw for 10 hours a day to charge batteries and then allow the batteries to carry the load for the other 14 hours of the day. If you want to go with PV, figure a 10 kw array to handle the load.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

OKFarmer

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Re: powering house
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2012, 08:56:13 PM »
My electric bill says I used 3783kWh's last month.
So that is 126kWh per day.
Or 5.25kW per day.

Did I do that correctly?

That is in our all electric farm home, with shops (welders etc) included and a travel trailer plugged in the harvest crew was using.

carlb23

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Re: powering house
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2012, 08:58:21 PM »
That would be 5.25 per hour not day

OKFarmer

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Re: powering house
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2012, 09:54:48 PM »
Carlb,

Thats what I meant. Just not what I typed!

Pebkac error!  (Problem exists between keyboard and chair)

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LowGear

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Re: powering house
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 12:41:48 AM »
I was thinking more of a small inverter / charger on the AC line to buffer the start-up.

Casey
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macgyvermike

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Re: powering house
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 04:05:31 AM »
I have thought of the inverter and batteries for the AC idea. Not sure how to hook this up though.
Or using grid to start AC then switching to gen. Using a paddle switch in front of evaporator fan with two contacts in unit.
or leaving AC  on grid and run the rest on gen.
I'm in Georgia.
Tom you make it sound as if my power usage is excessive. I have one of the lowest power bills in my church and work.

Tom

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Re: powering house
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 05:42:57 AM »
Fair enough, I'm in coastal northern California where the 50f Pacific ocean provides natural AC. Our house rarely gets above 80 and then not by much. Typical humidity is 50% inside and teens in the afternoon out side. I've lived in DC so I do have sympathy for the weather out there. Our home is designed with high thermal mass and insulation to keep it cool during the day. One thing to consider about putting PV panels on the roof is that the shade they make can reduce cooling bills upto 38%. This was reported in an article in this months Home Power magazine.

Really before going off-grid the best $ spent is to improve the both the thermal and electrical efficiency of your home. How old is the home? And how much insulation does it have. Windows? Roofing, we have a standing seam metal roof which should last the rest of my life and reflects about 25% more heat than a comp shingle roof.

Also what are your motivations for going off-grid. That can help prioritize what to focus on. Sorry for being such an arrogant prick, I've studied this subject for a couple of decades and tend to assume people know as much as I do.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.