Puppeteer

Author Topic: power for electric radiator fan?  (Read 22369 times)

jcarpenter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
power for electric radiator fan?
« on: June 07, 2012, 11:48:43 PM »
I hope this post is ok in this forum.  Mods please move to correct place if it's not.

We have CS 6 horsepower Listeroid and an ST genhead setup for making 240V power.  The system has been set up with a scrounged radiator (unknown donor).  The engine heat is currently visually monitored with a car water temp gauge.  During operation under load, it appears that the engine overheats fairly quick unless a fan is used for cooling so we scrounged an electric fan (from Lincoln V8).  

So, the questions are:

1) what's the most reliable way to produce 12V for the fan?  Of course, it would need to be heavy duty gear.  
2) what's the best way to automatically switch the fan on and off as needed - perhaps some temp sensitive relay?
3) what's the best way to have an alarm (preferably engine shutdown) if the temp goes too high?


Sure would like to find off-the-shelf solutions for these problems.  Really appreciate any ideas or pointers ...



dieselgman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
    • View Profile
    • Lister Parts
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 02:07:51 AM »
12vdc from a battery would be the norm for powering your cooling fan, just have to add a charging device powered from your AC power.
Water jacket temp sensors are available off-the-shelf from automotive and industrial suppliers.
Woodward makes good 12vdc solenoids and a simple circuit through a break-on-rise sensor could be used - connected to your fuel rack.

These are common enough circuits used on most small to medium generators, you could scavenge if you had a bone-yard somewhere near... or just order new stuff.

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

jcarpenter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 05:09:59 AM »
12vdc from a battery would be the norm for powering your cooling fan, just have to add a charging device powered from your AC power.
Water jacket temp sensors are available off-the-shelf from automotive and industrial suppliers.
Woodward makes good 12vdc solenoids and a simple circuit through a break-on-rise sensor could be used - connected to your fuel rack.

These are common enough circuits used on most small to medium generators, you could scavenge if you had a bone-yard somewhere near... or just order new stuff.



I don't have any boneyards nearby with this kind of tech.  Can you recommend a good place to buy new?  Can you recommend a good 110V charger for this type of duty cycle?  I foresee the Listeroid running 8 hours steady -- then shutdown, relube and check oil -- before doing another 8 hours.










« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 05:12:52 AM by jcarpenter »

Horsepoor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • West Palm Beach, Florida
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 09:17:53 AM »
Good thread for discussion of auto shut down:  http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=98.0

You can mail order a radiator electric 12V fan here:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G4904/

And the thermostat control for the fan here:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLX-31147/

Finally, just about everything you could ever desire to control your engine is here: http://www.murcal.com/Catalog/Murphy

Pay particular attention to the Murphy temperature controlled switches, they are easy to wire in and simple to use.

Bruce
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 09:28:20 AM by Horsepoor »
GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

jcarpenter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 03:08:05 PM »
Excellent.  Thanks all.



ronmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 07:29:32 PM »
Got any pictures of your setup?
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

LowGear

  • Casey
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
  • What? My diesel had fries for lunch?
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 09:44:47 PM »
Couldn't he just hard wire the fan to two cheapskie battery chargers in parallel (one for backup) and thermostat the 120 AC?  How about just a small house fan - efficiency?

Casey
NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

carlb23

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 10:15:55 PM »
I use a small 120 volt house fan on my setup and it works fine.  If you want to turn it on and off just add a relay and snap disk switch.  I keep the fan off in the winter and on low when temps are above 60 degrees and have not had a problem.

I do have a large radiator and my generator is only used for backup.  When running it pulls about 2kw on average.

Carl

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2012, 05:44:08 AM »
I use induced draft via exhaust and some duct work, no fan needed.

http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2556.0

LowGear

  • Casey
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2130
  • What? My diesel had fries for lunch?
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2012, 06:06:02 PM »
Hey BruceM,

YES!  I remembered the setup as soon as I saw the photo.  Great idea and might qualify as a co-generation.  I wonder if painting the stack black on the sunny side would help during the hours of daylight?  Does it help muffle the sound as well?

Casey
NPR Tipper/Dump Truck
Kubota BX 2230
Witte BD Generator
SunnyBoy 6000 + SolarWorld 245

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 06:57:02 AM »
The suction from the induced draft system is very powerful, no thermal boost is needed.  Sound is reduced somewhat, but was already pretty tame with just an auto muffler.

Horsepoor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
  • West Palm Beach, Florida
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 06:40:46 AM »
Yes, the ultimate COOL setup is BruceM's setup - I love it!
GTC 20/2 down rated to 850 rpm - ST 15
Metro 6/1 800 rpm on cart - ST 7.5

jcarpenter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2012, 05:49:23 PM »
Hi all,

Right now I don't have any video of the rig.  Gotta do some serious cleaning first.   :-)

We've been using a common house box fan for the test runs so far.  Just got the car radiator fan installed and I guess we need to buy a thermoswitch for it.  I'm concerned about using cheap chargers and other parts -- even with a backup because we've been having a large number of failures of materials and parts over the past 5 years or so.  This is a SHTF genny so it's gotta be 100% when called to perform over the long haul.

That induced draft is the absolute coolist thing I have ever seen.  I wish we knew more in the beginning so we could have planned better.  Right now, the location if fixed and the unit is bolted to the floor.  Whew.  Lot of work.   :-)

I'll post video soon but it won't hold a candle to what you folks are doing......




Tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Green power is good.
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 06:58:56 PM »
If I was doing a radiator with a fan for a 120vac only system, I'd start with an attic gable vent fan. Then use a snap switch to control the temps. See this thread for info on snap switches. http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2612.0
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

BruceM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3054
    • View Profile
Re: power for electric radiator fan?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 11:21:36 PM »
An attic gable fan is a good idea for durability, but I think it might not be so good a choice in terms of excess power consumption. For a modest sized engine with a likely oversized radiator, we don't need much of a fan.  Maybe you could find a very wimpy attic fan, or perhaps  some other modest power  AC fan.

 I do like the AC fan idea better than DC, the temperature switch will last much longer on AC. Breaking contact on DC causes arcing and one-way metal deposits that shorten contact  life.  Induction motors are also typically far superior in longevity than brushed DC motors.