key puller part 3

[32 coupe]

Well after waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much work, sweat and swearing I am where I am.

I fabbed up Quinns tool idea and after about 3 turns on the lead screws the head of the key POPPED right off.

OK,  lets try this again....I fabbed the drill guide, also Quinns idea, and drilled the 1/8" with no problem. After drilling the 5/16" I could see that I had just a little metal left over so I made a longer and larger drill bit...11/32" and went ahead....I kept seeing metal at the bottom of the hole so I kept drilling....stupid me....The flywheel was almost against the case so I could not see or get anything between them (both sides were like this)... after drilling, trapping and cussing some more I welded a threaded rod to what was left of the key and put my slide hammer on that....Half the key came out after about 12 or 15 good hard wacks.....The other half came out after much tapping and prying and pulling.......so here we are.....

The damage on the crank I do not consider to be a super big deal, but maybe it is Worst case would be to send it out and have it welded and ground or I'm thinking a dab of JB weld and little file and paper work. The damage is just into the seal area.....perhaps a sleeve and different seal......Maybe turn the seal the other direction and to the good area.....My options are not limited I don't think.

What do you guys think ?

Thanks for all the help from everyone !!!

32 coupe

[LowGear]

Yo 32,

Thank Goodness someone on this site has actually screwed up a bit.  While I truly enjoy seeing the work of the masters it is very comforting to see an oopsie every once in a while.  JB would be good enough for me until it fails at least once.

So you recommend pulling it out once in while no matter how good it feels?

Casey

[fabricator]

Um, doesn't a seal go in the case there? Oops poor reading comprehension, yeah I'd just JB it and do your best to get it smooth, you'll have to keep a eye on it the seal might eat into the JB, but hey, if you aint leaking something you better check all your fluid levels.

[sailawayrb]

Quinn's tool would have made easy work of this if you had used it from the beginning before damaging the key.  Again, I think tools that will move EITHER the flywheel away from the key OR move the key away from the flywheel are best.  However, after damaging the key, Tom's weld approach likely would have saved the day.  Hindsight is always 20/20 on these things and sometimes it is just best to lick your wounds and learn from the experience.

You have definitely introduced a new stress concentration point in the critical outer circumference of your shaft.  Whether this will lead to fatigue failure in your life time would require an engineering analysis.  You will likely get differing opinions about what to do about this.  Welding and grinding should address the issue.  However, if not done properly, this approach could make things worse.  Personally, I would start looking for a new shaft because I am a conservative mechanical engineer and because my engine is located in the garage of my suburban house where a failure would be catastrophic. 

Bob B.

[fabricator]

I'm curious as to how a round hole is a new stress concentration point? The original key way is surely a far greater concentration point.

[sailawayrb]

Hi Fabricator,

Because the original key way didn't extend into the area where maximum bending moment and resultant stress occurs.  It also appears that the damage is deeper than the key way, but the photo could be deceiving.  You are indeed correct that a round hole is better than a square hole in terms of minimizing stress concentrations.

Bob

[millman56]

Hi,  Lister CS  crankshafts can break and people can win the lottery jackpot but I would be tempted to fill the drilling, smooth it off and fit an SKF speedysleeve, this would allow you to use the original seal.

Mark.

[rleonard]

Is this on the pump (cranking side) or the PTO side?

Bob

[32 coupe]

Bob,
The "mistake" is on the PTO side. I thought the sleeve idea would be the best fix......

There is a crank shop "down the road" that advertises "underwater welding" I may give them a call next week.
Standard Crank has done some wonderful things throughout the years for me that I have always been happy with. They did a 1956 Hemi crank for me that had to have the front welded and reground to a newer timing gear size. ( it is an industrial engine that had a gear drive that was changed to a chain drive for "the street".

I coulld be wrong but I just don't think ( that is probibly an understatement !) it is that severe.

sailawayrb  has given me a lot to think about...the damage is past the keyway but far from the "bearing area".


The crank has about .025 end play and looks like it has damaged 1 of the main bearings from the "slop'". It also looks like there is not enough bearing area for the "thrust" or endplay to "ride" on. The crank may have to be welded and "fixed" in these areas anyway.
One end has run against the bearing with a lot of wear and the other end has never come close to the bearing.

I will post some more pics today to give everyone a better idea of what I'm seeing.

I can never thank you guys enough for your ideas,

32 coupe

 

[fabricator]

Yep, JB weld, speedy sleeve, forget it ever happened and it'll out last us all.

[32 coupe]

I am leaning to fabricators idea as this is what I thought when I first saw what a stupid mistake I'd made............


It's plain to see where I ended with first driil and should have stopped there.



Here we can see where the engine was hammering the extra .020 of endplay.



Think there is enough area for the bearing ? Look at the scuff in the corner and the wear on the bearing area.



The gov. end bearing looks like it has not been touched





I don't understand how the no. 2 cyl. injector pump cam and lobe are getting oil ??  What am I missing ? ( other than the obvious !!)


32 coupe

[dieselgman]

Looks to me like that extra drill depth can be easily welded and turned back to original for the seal surface. The bearings and housings are easy enough to replace with new items and the thrust surface can most likely be polished back to a proper finish. I am guessing that the pictured narrow thrust surface is a defect in the original casting/machine work? The ones I've looked at were considerably wider than that one... this may be the larger and more involved problem you have uncovered with that crankshaft.

dieselgman

[32 coupe]

dieselgman,

Just what I was thinking ! Looks like a trip to the shop for this one !

Thanks again,

32 coupe

[sailawayrb]

32 Coupe,

After seeing your latest photos, I think you are OK.  The damage does NOT extend into the highly stressed area.  If we knew exactly how much margin was in the shaft design and if we had confidence in the metallurgy of the shaft too, you might be OK without doing anything.  My vote is for the weld and turn option.

Bob B.

[millman56]

Hi,          just a sketchy thought based on a 30 year ago welding tech course , fusion welding  a forging such as a crankshaft even with preheat and post welding heat applied, could unless the entire forging is normalised,  introduce stresses/hard zones which may pose a greater risk of fracture than the original damage would.   

Mark.