Air start

[contaucreek]

So I have this horrible pnumonia like illness invading my breating apparatus so sleep has been fleeting. In one of my more lucid moments last night I wondered if a COV could be modified to provide for the admission of starting air from a tank and then have the ability to recharge the tank like the big Rustons ?


I see via search that we played with this before, oh well late to the party again.

[rleonard]

Hi Paul,
Bad news hearing of your illness.  Recover soon and well my friend.
IIRC most of the air starts we have seen for our Listers have used a Gahst or similar air motor to spin the engine up.  Unlike our Hornsbys where we manually admit a charge of compressed air to roll it over.

Having started the RH this way a couple of times, the timing is not critical.   Mostly because things move so slowly.  That would work against us on the Listers.  They move so much faster.  Now if a timing arrangement could be used to mechanically operate the air valve, it holds promise.

I cleaned and hydro-tested my air start tank to 600 PSI per the tag.

Still working on a frame design and scrounging materials.

Bob

[listerdiesel]

Some JP's had air starting, probably the smallest engine that had it under Lister:

http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk/ListerData/JPair.htm

If you can't wind the clockwork up by hand, get a Start-O-Matic alternator on it and do it the easy way!

Peter

[Quinnf]

Given the slow speed, I wonder if it could be accomplished with an electric air solenoid valve actuated via an Arduino sketch using magnet and reed switch or Hall effect sensor to sense crank position.  Program the Arduino to actuate a pneumatic valve holding the decompressor open on compression stroke, fire the air solenoid valve just just after TDC on the power stroke, skip the next revolution (repeat) . . .  But you'd need a really rugged air solenoid to handle the back pressure as the engine fired up.

Hmmm . . . 10 points for 10 for cool, but about a 3 for implementability.  I think it's easier to use a Gast 4AM or equivalent to turn the flywheel.  Pity, it'd be a nice project.  Someone really ought to do it just to do it.

q.

[AdeV]

So I have this horrible pnumonia like illness invading my breating apparatus so sleep has been fleeting.

Take care of yourself.... I went there in Nov-Dec-Jan last year, I had no idea the disease was so dangerous. I guess you've already been to see the quack & got your antibiotics; if not, don't delay man, do it today. After my initial pneumonia, I started to get unwell again, procrastinated for a week and a half & ended up back in hospital for 3 weeks, with a massive infection & a hole in the lung...

All I've got to show for it now is a nice scar.

If I were god-fearing, I'd probably thank him right now...

[Combustor]

            Not sure how the air start was arranged on big Ruston singles, but their multi cylinder engines had a seperate sprung valve in each cylinder to admit air, 250 or 300 PSI, an air distributor to time the admission of air to each cylinder in sequence, and a sliding camshaft with 3 sets of cams, which allowed the intake valves to stay closed amd the exhaust valves to run on a double lobe cam to exhaust the cylinder every revolution, so it became a 2-stroke air motor for starting. There was also a half compression setting used during very cold starts while injecting fuel. Never known a failed start down to a few degrees below freezing, but it sure was not fun if the air tank had leaked down and you had to start the compressor engine first when near frozen.  Combustor.

[bandmiller2]

Creeker,air start on a smaller Lister is possible but not practical.A small motor generator like was used on koehler lawn tractors with a serpentine multigroove belt around the flywheel should work.Remember the old auto wheel balancers possibly a motor with a friction wheel that could be held agenst the flywheel, motor it over then flip off comp. release. Frank C.

[BruceM]

There are quite a few of us with rubber roller friction drive starters on Listeroids, some Gast 4AM powered, some with modified auto starter motors. Most of the Gast users also use a pneumatic cylinder to engage the starter roller, often on a simple tilting or sliding frame. My Gast 4AM starter has been in service for something like 5+ years, working great still.

[rleonard]

I have seen Onan diesel generators fitted with air starters.  This was on the DJB (air cooled 2 cyl 6KW) and the 4 cyl (12KW) mate to it. It looked just like the electric starters; bendix gear into the ring gear on the flywheel.  But instead of cables, a 3/4 air hose routed through a hand push valve to start.

Bob

[dieselgman]

Obviously talking about quite different kinds of "air-starting" here. We have the air-powered starter motors - either belt, gear, or roller engaged. Then we have the actual "air-started" big diesels such as used in large ocean going craft, container ships and freighters etc.. In this case high-volume air pressure is dumped right into the cylinder of the engine to be started thereby pushing the piston down through its stroke and getting the big guy rolling for startup. They have special valving and controls to make this possible. Many smaller Listers have done service in these systems as air-compressors for starting up the big boys. Sort of like a pony motor on an old Caterpillar except with air pressure as the linkage between them rather than mechanical gearing and a clutch.

dieselgman