Fuel use

[32 coupe]

After years of reading this site in '08 I purchased a Metro 6/1 and after may mods and about 200 hours of "play time" today I "ran some numbers" and would like to share:

3500 watt load in 1 hr. I used 42 oz. diesel fuel
1630 watt load in 1 hr. I used 25 oz. diesel fuel
1000 watt load in 1 hr I used  21 oz. diesel fuel

I guessed the ST 7.5 head used about 1 HP just to turn it. (some of you guys will know the correct number on this I'm sure ) so at 3500 watts plus my guessed 750 for the head  at 4200 watts the engine is "working" pretty good.

My question is it seems like it is using alot of fuel per hour......does not smoke or belch fuel, it starts and  "runs like a champ".

I have not checked the timing because it runs so good untill now I thought everything was fine. Should I "spill time" it or does it sound like the idler gear could be off ?

Thanks for years of advise. I hope to put up some pics soon.

32 coupe          

[veggie]

Should be about 1.2 to 1.5 quarts per hour for a 6/1 at full load.

your 42 oz. (or 1.3 quarts) per hour sounds about right.

veggie

[32 coupe]

Thanks for the reply, veggie.
I just thought it was too much but I guess it must be correct. I will be playing with different fuel mixtures in the next few weeks and will try to keep everyone posted on the results.

[Quinnf]

An old rule of thumb for diesels is 18 hp per gallon per hour.  Or 6 hp per 1/3 gallon/hr.  Or 6 hp per 43 ounces/hr. 

Quinn

[ronmar]

Your numbers are sighnificantly different from mine, in fact, they are pretty outstanding if my math is correct.  We are talking fluid ounces right?  If so a gallon contains 128 fluid ounces or 1.28 ounces per 1/100 gallon.  My 6/1 and ST-5 at 1KW of electrical load burns .1918(19.18%) of a gallon per hour. 1.28 X 19.18 = 24.55 ounces...  As you will see by my fuel consumption graph that I linked to below, I had no 3500W load, but based on the linear fashion that I recorded in the table, at 3.5KW I estimated a burn of .396gallons or 50.68 fluid ounces/hour.  In fact your numbers at 3500W load burns less fuel than my measured 3000W load of .3496 gal/hr or 44.75 OZ/hr

Knowing that the ST5 and ST7.5 are passively regulated, I have to ask exactly how you are determining your electrical load?  At 3.5KW of load, the voltage droop on my ST5 is significant, to the point that connecting up 3.5KW worth of baseboard heaters actually only puts around 3KW of load on the generator when the voltage and current are measured.  My loads were determined and checked/recorded regularly throughout the measurement process using calibrated fluke voltmeter and current probe.  I also ran the test numerous times and came up with very repeatable numbers, even to the point of being able to detect when I did not run at least a 1/2 hour pre load to fully warm the engine(was less efficient when not fully warmed).

http://s270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/rmarlett/?action=view&current=graph.jpg&mediafilter=noflash

[32 coupe]

I knew this would happen !

 I got my numbers with the trusty Kill A Watt and a couple of yard sale space heaters one being 2 stage so I can get 3 different loads. I know its probibly not the most accurate method but it is close enough for what I'm doing.

 This was my first attempt at fuel numbers so I really can't get a base line untill several more runs.

 Will different fuels, used motor oil or veg oil, result in different numbers ?

32 coupe

[ronmar]

Yep, it did happen didn't it:)

Killawatt is great, but it can only measure 1 leg at a time, so there is some room for error in your load estimates.  I think you will find that there wasn't quite as much work being performed as you thought there was.

As far as fuel consumption with different fuels, for the most part It is all about the BTU baby:)  Different BTU content of the fuel will deliver different ammounts of energy(if done properly) in the conversion to torque. So yes, you should be burning different volumes for a given ammount of work with a different fuel. 

[32 coupe]

ronmar,
I checked all the electrical with a Fluke as well so I think those numbers are close....as I said I guessed on the number that it took to spin the head ....I'd say the 4200 watt full load guess on my part is pretty close because the engine is really starting to work at that point. A little grey smoke and a fairley heavy "chugging" sound.

I guess I was just a little surprised at the fuel numbers I got. I thought they would be much better.

[ronmar]

I was surprised also, as your numbers are better than any other 6/1 I have ever heard of by a good margine.  Everything I had researched came down to right around 1/8(.125) gallon of diesel per KW per hour for a 6/1-ST5 combination..  My own tests fell right in line with this, with 1 KW consuming more than that, 2KW real close to that figure and 3KW less than that figure.  This falls in line with the first KW costing the most as you are powerig all the pumping and basic field power requirements to reach rated output voltage. Along those lines, I would think your numbers should be a little worse than 1/8 gal per KW/HR, as a larger generator requires a larger field, and the closer you run to the low end of the generators output range the more fuel per KW it should cost you.

The number it takes to spin the generator is really irrelevant, as it is mostly dependant on generator efficiency and drive losses which are, without a lot of study, not fully known.  IMO, it all comes down to the final output, so that is where I focused my study.  Wanna know exactly how much fuel the base gen is consuming?  Do a unbelted run for just the engine, then put the belt back on and do an unloaded run with engine powering just the gen.  The baseline on my chart is engine/gen unloaded @.126 gal/hr

[ronmar]

How are you measuring your fuel for your tests?

[Tom]

Ronmar, I've seen the .125 number published for b100. The number published by Lister on diesel is .110. Perhaps 32 coupe is measuring the kw of load placed on the engine and not kw of electricity produced. To achieve 4.3 kw electricity out of an engine rated at 4.4 kw is not possible unless using one of the unobtainum based over unity generators. 

[ronmar]

Ronmar, I've seen the .125 number published for b100. The number published by Lister on diesel is .110. Perhaps 32 coupe is measuring the kw of load placed on the engine and not kw of electricity produced. To achieve 4.3 kw electricity out of an engine rated at 4.4 kw is not possible unless using one of the unobtainum based over unity generators. 

That was why I was asking questions.  Apples and oranges don't compare well...

[32 coupe]

ronmar,
yep, here we go !

I have a custom made fuel tank......so I filled the tank, ran the engine and refilled measuring out of a graduated 1 qt. cup as I refilled.

I am not in a "lab", I'm just doing "backyard engineering".

I live in Florida but am building a house in Kentucky and thought about using the Metro for power. I am not sure I have a grasp on the whole "off the grid" concept. I just realized through my "play time" that running the Metro all the time is NOT the way to go. You guys and gals here have been a great source for all the info I've gathered about the "Lister" clones and if nothing else I enjoy watching the thing run !

I work during the week so my "play time' is relegated to the weekends. My set up consists of Metro 6/1 on a 6 x2 inch "c" channel frame with the ST 7.5 gen head, custom fuel tank, napa fuel filter assembly, honda radiator and fan, custom t stat- housing, 195 degree stat, with a thermostaticly controlled fan. I made my own "tappett puller" , reworked the intake lifter, had to make a brass "shim" for the intake rocker arm to align it properly and various other "tweaks". From reading here I guess I'm one of the lucky ones because I have had no real problems with my engine. It was pretty clean inside and it ran good right out of the box.

I will get some pictures this week end and post them, you guys might get a kick out of them.

Gary Lane    AKA:  32 coupe

[Tom]

Hi Gary,

I ran my Ashwamegh 6/1 for all of our home construction. It was wired for 120v output only and was able to run almost everything necessary for construction, with the exception of a 2hp compressor with a bad start capacitor. In fact almost all the subs were fairly impressed with how quiet and economical it was.

Now the house is completed, well almost, and we've lived off-grid for 3 years, we've got a bit of experience. The 'roid not charges batteries during cloudy weather and heats the house with a hydronic loop in the light weight concrete floor.

What kind of coup, Ford? I used to have a '33 DeSoto deluxe rumble seat coup.

[32 coupe]

Hi Tom,
1932 Ford 3 window chopped top coupe.....custom frame, aftermarket everything.....it is a work in progress. I started it about 3 years ago and it is a LONG way from being done. I'm new to the forum so I'm still trying to figure out how to post pics.

Gary