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[xyzer]

So I wish I'd done as Quinn did, and stripped the the case in a lye bath, then glyptol'd it.  I had flushed and poked and inspected my case carefully, but I guess there was hidden treasure under the green paint somewhere that I missed. 

Just my opinion of course but after owning only 2 "Listeroids" and watching this "oidish" site I have come to the conclusion (still evolving) the "oids" are just like people .....There are not 2 exactly the same but suffer some of the same fault's.like people! When I bought mine whatever years ago and to my relief I stumbled on this site. The 2 major failure complaints at the time were idler gears and rod bearing failures. There were others for sure.....let's see sand, misaligned rockers, non-rotating lifters, half gasket, head gasket leaks, liner protrusion, and those were the obvious ones a DIY guy could address oh and did I mention sand. My combinations of issues were usually a combination of other people's issues. We have watched new owners tackle these same list of problems ask the same questions. Let's face it 8 years ago we were getting what we paid for! I would work on mine always thinking for what I paid I would have paid $250.00 more and these things could have been perfect or a 100,000 hr. machine! After time my evolved conclusion figured sand was probably 90% of the rod bearing issue! It is everywhere and hard to remove all of it. We don't hear of many rod failures anymore because when asked by a noob we all harp clean clean! The original "Lister design" was sound! The rod bearing should last forever if maintained. It had no hollow dipper. If we could acquire all of the castings and machine it correctly now I might listen to the "100,000 hr BS" but I haven't seen that yet. There are so many things that can be wrong with these things! Did the bearing fail because of sand or misalignment? I bet usually sand! The only thing the Indians improved on IMO was installing the TRB's they will survive lots of sand, misalignment and improper preload!  Not many problems there.      I can't even keep my thoughts straight on the list of problems these things have......and with a little DIY tweaking they just keep on going.........am I still on topic? hmmm way to much BS......sorry!

[Tom]

As Dave says these babies are all unique, perhaps because they are pretty much build by hand, and unskilled hands at that. Mine is a 2004 production and had Sand, misaligned rockers, non rotating tappets, a defective wet liner and finally my idler gear after having run the stock one for a while, was showing wear on the sides of the teeth. That will definitely cause stress risers and in fact the edges of some of the teeth were already chipped after a few hours run time.

But my roid is out in the genny shack chugging away charging batteries and heating the house as I type. It's burning a nice mixture of B100, WMO and RUG and doing it quite reliably since I've learned to clean the injector regularly. Like George B. says the sound of the engines is awesome and I'm hooked. Currently 1335 hours on mine.

[Horsepoor]

In both my listeroids, I also have XYZER off set idler bolts and hollow dippers, brass timing gears, gaskets to go, and all the other typical stuff, but I don't have the new and improved solid upper bearing shells. So where can I buy several sets?

[cujet]

I'm not at all convinced listeroid crankshaft tapered roller bearings are a good thing. Especially when crankshaft support is considered.

Few engines today use anything other than modern hydronamic journal bearings. They are incredibly robust, support shafts very well and last a very long time.

[bluesky]

I contacted XYZER some time last year. He said that he was not making offset idler bolts any more since Gov stoppage of importation----no market, and he needed to make 15 at a time to make it worthwhile. Anyone have a spare offset idler for sale? Same question as above---where can I get the solid upper shell. If I recall, they are only available in Canada.

I seem to recall from fluid dynamics that fluid will flow from area of high potential (pressure) to area of low pressure. This would confirm what folks figured out about the grooves in the upper shell--since there is more metal to metal clearance at the grooves the pressure will be lower there than in the surrounding areas of the shell. Therefore, oil will tend to be pushed out of the non-grooved areas and into the groove.

[38ac]

I'm not at all convinced listeroid crankshaft tapered roller bearings are a good thing. Especially when crankshaft support is considered.

.

You are indeed correct when it comes to support. The TRBs are a huge minus in that regard, if not for generous engineering in the original design broken cranks would be what everyone talks about. However the TRBs do allow for no quality control in the machining process and will better tolerate the huge amount of dirt and debris present when the engines are test run in India.

On another subject I was glad to see XYZers post about the rod bearing problems and his conclusions. The entire bearing shell groove deal was very troubling to me as the general consensus kind of defied what I have learned and experienced in years of engine work. Many, MANY times more force is transmitted on much smaller bearing areas in other designs as compared to a 6HP Listers.
Although much has been said about it a person should not take too strongly the warnings about taking these engines down and both removing as much sand and slag as can be removed AND sealing the remaining so it stays put.

[38ac]

.........am I still on topic? hmmm way to much BS......sorry!

You are fine as far as I am concerned.

Your conclusions in your post are the same as mine. As most of your know my experience is not with these engines in particular but engines in general. There are more than a few "laws" of engines that go past who made them and where and colors of paint and you just named a few of them.
Butch

[fabricator]

I'm not at all convinced listeroid crankshaft tapered roller bearings are a good thing. Especially when crankshaft support is considered.

Few engines today use anything other than modern hydronamic journal bearings. They are incredibly robust, support shafts very well and last a very long time.

Agreed, totally, the original CS engines are still out there and still running, most with the original bearings, and some ran for years 24/7 in places where they did not get regular maintenance, we shall see if the TRB clones are still running with the original bearings in 40 years, my bet is no.

[dieselgman]

Another vote here for the bushed main bearings - just as the Brits figured out and used over 50 years in their original desings. Way more surface area to carry the lubricating oil and all the stresses involved with that incredible amount of rotating mass! Of course proper setup and alignment is a must - and likely a bit more difficult to get it just right in the original designs.

dieselgman

[xyzer]

Another vote here for the bushed main bearings - just as the Brits figured out and used over 50 years in their original designs. Way more surface area to carry the lubricating oil and all the stresses involved with that incredible amount of rotating mass! Of course proper setup and alignment is a must - and likely a bit more difficult to get it just right in the original designs.

dieselgman

I suppose we could debate this one to death......but I have heard of more failed bushings on the originals than TRB's on the Indian clones.....I'm thinking hmmm I can not recollect of a failed TRB due to any of the forces you point out. The only rotating mass issue I see is on a 6/1 with the external balanced flywheels. Still doesn't seem to be a problem. Internally balanced engines have "Balanced flywheels" (we hope) and 150lbs x 2 of balanced rotating flywheels is nothing for the bearing size.   I will agree that 50 years ago they were the way to go but time marches on. When you loose the pump or oil supply on a bushed motor which will go first the bushing bearings or the rod bearing.....I bet the bushing with the applied side load will complain first! I have a 6/1 with no pump and all splash. The only way it can screw up is if some dummy lets the oil level fall below the dipper........I guess I voted twice

[Sfene]

When you look at other TRB applications, heavy truck axle bearings and the like, I can't believe that a Listeroid is going to be a harsher use. The impacts sustained by an over the road truck even withsuspension cushioning, are way beyond anything this engine can generate. These type bearings with care last hundreds of thousands of miles. I just don't see the issue. Keep the sand out of them and they'll be fine.

Tony

[dieselgman]

Likely no issue at all guys! Certainly not from me!

Just personal preferences and we also agree that with a sloppily built Indian clone, they are more likely to survive well with the TRBs.

dieselgman

[fabricator]

Pre load is extremely important on TRBs, as they wear the pre load changes, when it gets to a certain point then they start chattering and basically self destruct, how is the changing pre load adjusted on roids with TRBs?

[Sfene]

Given the choice, a solid bearing is always better, but with the lack of quality control that is reality with these engines rollers are not a bad compromise. Original CS engine were built as daily workhorses and the quality still shows. These copies are at best poor imitations, I hate to say it, better for tinkering than day to day hard usage.
 
My 2 cents....

Tony

[ronmar]

Pre load is extremely important on TRBs, as they wear the pre load changes, when it gets to a certain point then they start chattering and basically self destruct, how is the changing pre load adjusted on roids with TRBs?

The TRB preload is set same as squish.  The carriers are installed with a series of thin stacked gaskets.  You measure and remove gaskets as needed to get to the desired preload...