Inverter vs. generator

[billdrilling]

As I know very little about power and am going to build a power plant ,maybe there is some ideas.
Here is my plan. 6/1 listeroid, 4 x 8D batteries, hd 12 volt alternator. 2 x 6000 watt inverters. Batteries should make up for motor startup and high temperary load
Is this a solid practical idea? Bill

[dieselgman]

Practicality will depend on your loads... while it is very practical to use the Lister for charging and for peak loads, and use batteries and inverters for the majority of the time, it is necessary to quantify what those loads are and size your power system as well as storage capacity accordingly. Your system could also benefit from some alternate charging sources in most cases, even in the far North.

dieselgman

[LowGear]

Hi billdrilling,

I'm curious why you're not staying at 12 VDC all the way through?  Keep It Simply Smarty!

15 Amps at 120 Volts equals 150 Amps at 12 volts.  That better be some kind of butt kicking alternator.

Casey

[toydiesel01]

the most efficent way is 48 volt dc
magnum makes 9500 true sign wave inverter / charger,  this is what i use and totally love it.  you program the inverter set points,
it has a feature to go to sleep  so it takes very little from the bats but when it sees a load it wakes--also has a remote display ,i made inside of my house/ so you can see whats going on  add a magnum amp shunt and now you see how much you take from the batts and can see how much you charge the batts.  the hybred inverter/charger for the money is the way to go
also 6 volt INTERSTATE batts seem to be as good as the trojen with less cost.

on 48 volts it is close to 1 amp ac=2.5 amps dc
on 24 volts it is close to 1 amp ac=5 amps dc
my 2 cents worth

[toydiesel01]

also the magnum hybred powers your house and charges batts at the same time, monitors the power going to your house.  if a big load comes on it cuts back on the charging to give you full power from your generator to your house.

[billdrilling]

The idea off the batteries was to balance the load,from may to sept we get up to 20 hrs of daylight so solar input is also possible. I like the 48 volt idea and will look into it.
Asking you guys for help is like buying a super computer. I checked out the magnum and think that is kind of what I had in mind.

[Tom]

First problem is that I believe the biggest 12v inverter you will find is 2500 watts. Second is using starter batts where deep cycle batts are needed. Third is you need backup power for when/if an inverter fails.

I live off grid in a comfortable 2100 sq ft home with all the amenities except A/C. Our system consists of 3.4 kw of solar panels on the roof, 1055 ah @ 48 volt deep cycle batt bank, 2-3600 watt inverters and a Listeroid 6-1 with an ST5 generator. Not a perfect system, but it does 99% of what we need. The Listeroid is run 150-250 hours per year depending on weather and it also adds a bit of heat to the house.

[billdrilling]

Every one seems to agree, 48 volt ,48 volt inverter/chargers,lister /solar charging. Now batteries,deepcycle or how about 2volt cells like that are in utilitiy towers ,phone
substations and such. you know ,2 volt 1000 amp.. I really have no clue but I want a excellent system that friends and family can copy. Bill

[mike90045]

I've seen Tom's setup, very nice.  The large 48VDC systems are the way to go.  The inverters have built in 240VAC chargers, so when you run the genset, the batteries charge


solar:http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen:http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,
 http://tinyurl.com/LMR-tre
Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV
Powerfab poletop PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 400A battery bank | 15, Evergreen ESA 205 fa3 "12V" PV | Midnight ePanel |

[Tom]

The Hawker PV1's are 6 of the large 1055 ah, 2 v cells in a steel housing. Dual bus bars are welded to connect the 2 v cells into a 12 v battery. They are a bit heavy @ 865# each. Designed for PV service too. If you've got the $ start out with a fresh set of batteries as a lot of problems can come with used ones.

[billdrilling]

I do a lot of underground power for a large utility co and they say that they can get me large 2 v exides new pretty cheap.Any good? Also thinking of building the whole thing in an insulated 20 foot seacan,solar and everything,making it somewhat  portable.

[Tom]

Well get us some info that can be used to look up the cycle rating and amp hours.

[billdrilling]

http://www.exide.com/us/en/product-solutions/network-power/product/gnb-flooded-classic-h1t.aspx
This is the battery.Bill.

[Tom]

Wow, those are top of the line batteries. They kind of have a hole in the product line though the mct line tops out at 480ah and the h1t line starts out at 2500ah. If you could put together a 48 volt string of the smallest h1t batts for under 20k you've got a good deal.

[mike90045]

The Hawker PV1's are 6 of the large 1055 ah, 2 v cells in a steel housing. Dual bus bars are welded to connect the 2 v cells into a 12 v battery. They are a bit heavy @ 865# each. Designed for PV service too. If you've got the $ start out with a fresh set of batteries as a lot of problems can come with used ones.

I got a "starter set" of used L16's, and a desulfator, and kept them going, running the fridge at night for 2 years. They are pertty sad right now.  Just ordered a set of 700ah NiFe batteries (China) and they should be here by mid August.  Then I have to mix up 100 gallons of electrolyte and fill them up.

So, if you get batteries, go as large as you can:
afford
keep charged with enough amps to de-stratify the electrolyte.