Author Topic: COLD start---  (Read 16739 times)

Bansonyankee

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2005, 02:08:42 AM »
I have had good luck getting cold diesels to start using the heat from a propane torch to warm up the intake air.  Now, it would be kinda challenging to hold the torch while cranking the engine, but it really does work!  I've used it to start reluctant boat diesels, and also a worn-out-to-the-max Caterpillar D3408.  It's much less destructive on the engine than ether. 

I've made a lot of money rebuilding one cylinder Yanmar air-cooled diesels which were wrecked by the use of ether.  The torch method invariably gets them to start, and there's not a hint of detonation. 

Just my two cents' worth. 

JS

rpg52

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2005, 03:12:46 AM »
My elderly Detroit Diesel engine has an air heater for cold starting.  It is no longer functional, but would ignite a spray of diesel that would be drawn into the cylinders.  I'm not sure why they stopped using it (parts are no longer available, it stopped being installed in the '50's).  It seems like it would have been challenging to use, pumping the diesel in as you cranked the engine.  Kind of like rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time.  It seems like the biggest issue with ether is not using an excessive amount.  Others have suggested injecting propane gas or even WD-40.  I tried the propane without luck, but it is now standard issue on some industrial equipment, with an injection button in the cab.  I hear tell of people using a gasoline soaked rag over the intake - Don't try this at home!  Void where prohibited!  I use a tad of ether on my Detroit when it is below 50 degrees.  In really cold situations I'd be tempted to try the propane on a listeroid, with or without lighting it.  They say it is a much softer ignition than ether.  I haven't had any luck with the WD-40, they say it used to use propane as propellant but may have changed the formulation.  Is it scary to blow the lit propane torch into the intake?  I guess it would be alright, I have a residual paranoia about flames and intakes, probably left over from gasoline engines.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

hotater

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2005, 03:46:01 AM »
My 1975 model 15Kw Onan diesel has glow plugs and an air intake heater.  They say hold the switch for one minute to pre-heat, but in warm weather 30 seconds will do.  I started it this morning at ten above but I'd run a block heater for two hours with the Lister first.  That engine has always started every time, hot or cold.  The 35Kw Onans are  a totally different story...they're very hard starters no matter what I do.  It takes a LOT of ether to start that engine at zero.   Yesterday I robbed the working block heater out of the worn out #1 unit and put it in #2.  It started marginally better after warming up all night.   :-\

ONE tiny squirt of ether from a foot away, through  the air cleaner starts my Listeroid every time.  No hard firing or knocking, either...just the soft chuffing of a diesel getting up to speed.
    Starting it is too easy to change!
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Rory

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2005, 12:12:46 AM »
As for the 12 volt system in the shed, that is only intended to power the glow plug and the lights long enough to start the engine. A trickle charger would work fine to keep it in trim but, do these things monitor the battery charge and turn off or will they cook the battery if left on? I was thinking about an automotine alternator and a voltage regulator which would switch off when the battery is fully charged. Or, as mentiond, put a small solar pannel on the roof to charge the battery. They are pretty cheap these days and the drain on the battery would be pretty minimal, but again I don't know if these pannels switch of when the battery is fully charged. If anyone has any good ideas on this I would love to hear them.


Morgan

I just finished a Delco alternator set up on my 6/1. I mounted a pulley off a 460 ford on the end of the ST heads QD hub. Picked up two bolts then drilled 4 more on the same 3.312" bolt circle. This alternator has an internal regulator so I only need one wire with a switch to energise the field.         
Napa Model 7294, 94 Amp - Internal regulator type, 12 volt.

Rory
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 01:31:59 AM by Rory »

Joe

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2005, 01:07:16 AM »
Rory,
Welcome to the board. I really like that alternator set up …hmmm….I have all the parts in my attic to do the same.  Initially I had planned on running only a trickle charger…but it looks straight forward enough I may just do both…belt and suspender kind of thing. 

What type of filter head it that you mounted?  Also did you move it from the typical location to gain more clearance for changing the filter or to keep drips off the belt/flywheel when doing the same?

Joe
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

2005 Power Solutions  6/1-ST5

Rory

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2005, 01:16:36 AM »
The filter is made by Racor. With primer pump and a water seperator in one unit. Works good for those times you run out of fuel. I know, a big no no but it will happen. :D Yes thats why I moved the location.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 02:38:14 AM by Rory »

GerryH

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2005, 04:31:24 AM »
Hi rpg52
I have alot of experience starting diesel engines at -30 and colder. I also had a military 6x6 with a 250 Cummins with a flame intake heater like you discribed. It worked but I prefer ether. The reason hotator has good luck with ether is simple. He is doing the right thing. If you crank an engine in the cold til white smoke comes out the exhaust, and then give it a squirt of ether you are lighting the fuel mix in the engine and there will be no hard knock. The engine may want to quit an a minute at these temps but a slight wiff in the air intake will assist till the combustion chambers and head warm a little. Jack is giving his engine 3 squirts of fuel before he drops the valve and the ether/fuel and air lights up.
Many people hose the engine with ether and then crank it over. No oil got pumped, no fuel injected, just ether bang!

Gerry

rpg52

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2005, 04:52:31 PM »
Gerry,
That makes sense, making sure there is fuel before mixing in ether.  My Detroit has a hydraulic govenor, which requires a manual overide of the rack before it starts injecting fuel.  I usually crank until it starts pumping white smoke, then give it a little shot of ether.  Initially it barely starts popping, then gradually starts firing well as it warms.  If I had electricity nearby, I'd try a block heater, but that isn't available.  It seems like the glow plug option would be a useful addition for listeroids in really cold areas, but my climate just isn't that cold usually.  Likely I'll rely on a tad of ether if needed.  Incidentially, George B shipped a listeroid for me yesterday, should get it next week, and have a bit more to discuss.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

rpg52

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2005, 05:27:57 PM »
Rory,
Your fuel filter looks like the way to go.  Do you have a model number?  Cost?  Are the replacement filters widely available?  Thanks,
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

GerryH

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2005, 04:01:47 AM »
Hi RPG52,
I have a 400,000btu heater powered by a Lister-Petter diesel 6hp which has a air intake heater for winter starting. Its 350 watts / 12V and you can see it on
Page 73 of this document - ---
 
http://www.winget.co.uk/downloads/pdf/lister_petter/LISTER%20PETTER%20AC-AD%20PARTS%20MANUAL.pdf

This is an option that may bolt right onto the air intake of a Lister. There is nothing wrong with Georges glowplug idea. Simple and effective as well.

Gerry

Rory

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Re: COLD start---
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2005, 10:15:17 PM »
Rory,
Your fuel filter looks like the way to go.  Do you have a model number?  Cost?  Are the replacement filters widely available?  Thanks,
Ray

   I purchased the filter and base for $176.08  :o at Valley Detroit Diesel in Irvine California. Contact was Sergio in parts (949) 221-8642. The Racor part# is 460R30 and comes with all the fittings. I know that sounds like a lot of money but if you had to purchase a water separato, primer pump it would be a lot more than that and would not be as clean of a setup.
The filter crosses to a napa filter 3231 the retail cost is $35.97 but I get them for $19.64 on my account.