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Author Topic: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought  (Read 9058 times)

Spark_Chaser

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Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« on: April 24, 2011, 03:13:26 AM »
I am seeking advise from the forum with a gouged cylinder head.

Finally brought my disassembled GM90 6/1 DI out of storage. 
The engine had approximately 2 hours in short runs and was then taken apart to facilitate a move.

Last night I noticed a gouge on the cylinder head and 1 valve which probably occurred during assembly in India. 
There are pictures at www.listerenginegallery.com Spark Chaser.

The gouge starts at the edge of the combustion chamber and extends past the cylinder liner seal area.  There is carbon track evidence of seepage along the gouge.  I am fairly certain that extended running under load will worsen the leak and possibly erode the head.

Several thoughts come to mind:
Procure new DI type head.
Mill the head flat, verify the compression ratio, and shim between the cylinder and block if needed.
Attempt to fill the gouge with soft copper.
Attempt to fill with high temp metalized epoxy.

Any thoughts?
Spark_Chaser
6/1 GM90 disassembled and in work

past
5KW ST sold
Northern Lights 7KW sold

dieselgman

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 03:19:24 AM »
That defect does not appear too deep... a quick resurface should be easily accomplished to remove the defect.

dieselgman
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Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

rleonard

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 03:22:25 AM »
I agree.  Pull the valves and resurface the head.  Reassemble and good to go!

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

Spark_Chaser

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2011, 03:47:01 AM »
Forgot to ask about the valve gouge.

Could be lightly ground and polished out I suppose.

Seems minor compared to the slot machined in the center of the valve head.

Thank you for the advise on milling the cylinder head.
That is the path I am going to follow.
Spark_Chaser
6/1 GM90 disassembled and in work

past
5KW ST sold
Northern Lights 7KW sold

dieselgman

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 02:45:40 PM »
Scratch on valve is not an issue, certainly could be polished to remove any sharp edges, Check to be sure it is still concentric (not bent).

dieselgman
ALL Things Lister/Petter - Americas
Lyons Kansas warehousing and rebuild operations

listeroidsusa

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 08:48:07 PM »
The gouge on the cylinder head is a timing mark for aligning the crescent welded onto the intake valve. Amubhai from Satyajeet in India showed me this when he visited my machine shop a couple of years ago. I've never seen or heard of a valve failure on the GM-90 engines and I've sold and worked on a bunch of them.

Mike

Spark_Chaser

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 02:47:11 PM »
More on GM90 head and valve gouge.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the indexing information.  The gouge looked a bit deliberate but this type of intake valve was a new one to me. 

I still have concerns that this indexing mark may be a bit too deep.  The removed head gasket (picture added to gallery) shows a clear trail of blow by with a build up area just beyond.  Would hate to have a gasket fail down the road…
Gallery link http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=5435
 
Open to suggestions,
Leave as is figuring the carbon will fill the gouge area and remain stable, or spend $35 to surface the head and replace the index with a shallow mark outside of the combustion area.  (Planning to reuse the original valve)
Spark_Chaser
6/1 GM90 disassembled and in work

past
5KW ST sold
Northern Lights 7KW sold

buickanddeere

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 09:40:40 PM »
  Pre-heat in the wife's oven at 550F for a couple of hours. One a bead of stainless steel welding rod. Place back in over for another hour at 550F. Turn off heat, leave head in oven and retrieve cylinder head 24 hrs later. Resurface and good to go.

Zero_G

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 02:55:05 PM »
Pre-heat in the wife's oven......

Your wife must be different from mine.

buickanddeere

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 06:51:18 PM »
Pre-heat in the wife's oven......

Your wife must be different from mine.

  If the head is de-greased and the paint stripped. Then the heating and welding performed while she is away. It's all good.
  I did get caught with  Deere model 70 diesel piston in the dishwasher. It was fairly "clean" going in but I didn't count on so much fine black carbon material embedded in the metal. It took months before the  gray faded in the dishwasher back to white.

Spark_Chaser

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 03:47:24 AM »
Oven and the dishwasher...

I'm going to have to agree with Zero G. 
Mine actually got a chuckle out of the post a she knows that I know what would happen if I even considered using the kitchen for such matters.  Now a junker oven for the shop possibly scrounged for free would work.

Anyhow, took the head and gasket to a genuine old school machine shop.
They agreed that the index mark seemed a bit deep especially as it crossed the fire ring. 
It will be milled flat and I may put a slight index mark back well away from the combustion chamber seal area.
As the DI head is flat (no combustion chamber save a slight depression where the valves are) there will be no appreciable change in the compression ratio.

Spark
Spark_Chaser
6/1 GM90 disassembled and in work

past
5KW ST sold
Northern Lights 7KW sold

Amarbir[India]

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Re: Cylinder Head Gouge Advise Sought
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 04:33:57 PM »
I am seeking advise from the forum with a gouged cylinder head.

Finally brought my disassembled GM90 6/1 DI out of storage. 
The engine had approximately 2 hours in short runs and was then taken apart to facilitate a move.

Last night I noticed a gouge on the cylinder head and 1 valve which probably occurred during assembly in India. 
There are pictures at www.listerenginegallery.com Spark Chaser.

The gouge starts at the edge of the combustion chamber and extends past the cylinder liner seal area.  There is carbon track evidence of seepage along the gouge.  I am fairly certain that extended running under load will worsen the leak and possibly erode the head.

Several thoughts come to mind:
Procure new DI type head.
Mill the head flat, verify the compression ratio, and shim between the cylinder and block if needed.
Attempt to fill the gouge with soft copper.
Attempt to fill with high temp metalized epoxy.

Any thoughts?

Sir ,
    Our english Is Not that Great ,I Checked The Photo Also But Could Not See Or Understand a Thing  .Could You Please Try and Explain Again .Might Be We Also Learn From This  ?   ;D
Regards

Amarbir Singh Dhillon [ www.indianlisteroid.com ]
Indian Listers - Research ,Repair And Spares