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Author Topic: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay  (Read 32463 times)

BigGreen

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2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« on: February 17, 2011, 07:13:23 PM »
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330531049374#ht_500wt_1156

Can anybody tell me what I'm bidding on? I'm assuming this is a genuine Lister but I know nothing about the air cooled units. Are parts hard to come by or expensive? I sent the seller questions but no reply yet.

Thanks
Dave
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AdeV

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 07:52:27 PM »
Can't tell from the picture, it's probably an ST2 though. Cheap enough, good parts availability, most likely an 1800rpm engine, it'll be hellish noisy. Ask the seller if it's got a serial number plate on it, & if so, what the number is, then post back, I'm sure we can decipher it.
Cheers!
Ade.
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dieselgman

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 02:36:36 AM »
I also looked at that unit, it is peculiar that no real engine pictures were offered. I hope that that seller will oblige with full detail on that for you. Serial numbers will tell us what we need to know.

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BigGreen

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 03:00:09 AM »
He can't provide any additional information, can't provide any other photo and is unable to allow me to come take a look at it until after the auction is over even though he said on the auction that anyone is welcome to come see it in person if desired.  ???
I'm not walking away from this, I'm running. I'm questioning if it even exists.
Too bad, it looked like an interesting project.

Dave
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DRDEATH

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 04:39:07 AM »
That has a big red flag on it. DD
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listard-jp2

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 12:43:43 PM »
Quote
Can't tell from the picture, it's probably an ST2 though. Cheap enough, good parts availability, most likely an 1800rpm engine, it'll be hellish noisy. Ask the seller if it's got a serial number plate on it, & if so, what the number is, then post back, I'm sure we can decipher it.

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one, as every Lister ST2 engine I have ever seen has a flywheel driven air fan. If you enlarge the photo you will clearly see that the air cooling fan is belt driven.

From the look of the rocker covers, I am going to make a guess that it is a Deutz F2L912D engine or similar. In which case it is a better engine than the ST2 (even though it pains me to say that).

From a spares perspective in the US, OEM parts are freely available.

AdeV

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 01:06:29 PM »

From the look of the rocker covers, I am going to make a guess that it is a Deutz F2L912D engine or similar. In which case it is a better engine than the ST2 (even though it pains me to say that).


I think you're right (about the Deutz at least); the cover on the LHS is very similar to this one:



I'd not spotted that the cyl heads look round, rather than square. Good spot, that man.

So... it's not a Lister at all, he has no extra info, no more pics, and you can't see it prior to sale? Is that how you spell SCAM?
Cheers!
Ade.
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1x Lister CS Start-o-Matic (complete, runs)
0x Lister JP4 :( - Sold to go in a canal boat.

listard-jp2

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2011, 02:30:23 PM »
Quote
So... it's not a Lister at all, he has no extra info, no more pics, and you can't see it prior to sale? Is that how you spell SCAM?


I wouldnt be so sure he is out to scam people, as the seller has reasonable feedback upto now, and has recently sold a $40,000 water well drilling rig (ebay item 330499507538) and got good feedback from it.

More likely he has just being a bit lazy and assumed (like you do) that its a Lister engine, as the ID plate on those Deutz engines is not easy to find unless your familiar with them.

For one of these engines thats in rough running condition a $200 start price is a giveaway, as plant dealers pay serious money for these engines in the UK. This engine will produce more power than a Lister ST2, and is considerably lighter, and it will last longer between major overhauls.

FWIW: I used to work on these engines (in a prevoius life as a plant fitter). Amongst other applications the F2L912D was used on twin tool Ingersol Rand road compressors, for cutting through the tarmac with road breaker drills. A superb little engine! that only ever needed routine servicing, and which would continue working even under the most arduous of conditions. The only weakness with these engines is the cooling fan belt breaking, however the engines I worked on were fitted with an engine shutdown system in the event of a belt breakage occuring. Never had to decoke one either as they run quite warm, and were alway run under a significant load at all times.

Upon replacing the Ingersol Rand compressors, with another make of compressor (driven by a Lister Petter LPW4 engine) I became very adept at replacing blown headgaskets, as the LPW4 could not tolerate these operating conditions. I understand that in Lister Petters recent history, Deutz (KHD) even owned the company for a short period of time! This was when Listers was developing the X range of Diesel engines. KHD subsequently sold the company to its present owners, upon realising the perlious state of the company, but KHD retained the manufacturing rights to the X range.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 02:34:30 PM by listard-jp2 »

BigGreen

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2011, 03:50:03 PM »
WOW, how did you pick all this up on that one crappy photo? I'll have to blow it up and take a second look.

I agree on the lazy and DrillCat seems to be a reputable EBayer. He said it's at the farm and is unable to get there this weekend. After sleeping on it I think he just wants to get shed of it. It may have problems but for $300 it may be worth the effort. I'm still not buying a pig in a poke. It may be worth it's weight in slag or it may be something worth having but I'm not going to find out.
Dave
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dieselgman

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2011, 03:59:35 PM »
I also have had substantial exposure to the Deutz F2L series, they ran major numbers of them on the Alaska pipeline project 37 years ago. I also owned and worked on a number of them. While they may be a fine engine - new, I found them to be troublesome and awkward to build. The major contractors all switched over to Lister in the late 70's and forward. The rest is history.

I guess my eyes are not so good anymore because I could discern no identifiers on that little plant - I am super familiar with the Listers and Deutz as well.

dieselgman
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listard-jp2

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 09:45:04 AM »
Quote
WOW, how did you pick all this up on that one crappy photo? I'll have to blow it up and take a second look.

That's exactly what I did  ;), but due to the picture quality eBay size restrictions place on listing photographs, there is a limit to how much enlargement can take place before the image becomes too pixilated.

Quote
I found them to be troublesome and awkward to build.

Could you possibly expand on that please.

I can think of several areas the KHD F2L engine is an improvement on a comaparable sized Lister ST engine, such as: only one fuel pump to spill time, use of Bosch fuel injection equipment verses Bryce (which is not well known outside the UK, and hence could be more expensive to repair), external fuel injection equipment (hence no engine oil dilution from diesel leaks), gear driven oil pump verses Lister's plunger pump, induction hardened crankshaft journals, electric starting as standard, available as indirect or direct injection, one piece cylinder head, on multi cylinder engines conventional centre main bearing caps instead of main bearing cheeses which can and do fret in the corresponding crankcase bore, oil is filtered for all bearing surfaces (unlike the ST engine where timing gear main bearing (ST1 only) and rocker arm bushes are supplied with unfiltered oil.

In addition the KHD engine was a new design whereas a comparable engine, the Lister ST range was based on the Lister LD engine (a 1950's design) which Lister's had stretched to the limit of its  bore and stoke capacity with the ST range, but still using the same crackcase casting as the LD range. Which made assembly of the crankshaft balance weights only possible when the crank is partially assembled into the crankcase. Combined with Aluminium lower half cylinder heads (when previously cast iron was used on the smaller capacity engines) which were known to crack if the injector clamp bridge piece holding down bolts are over tightened.

However I would conceed that the KHD engine is a considerably more complex engine than the Lister equivalent, and will deteriorate faster than a comparable Lister engine if not maintained as per the manufacturers recommendations. Which would be more likely to occur on an engine working for long periods of time un-attended in remote areas such as an Alaskan oil pipeline.



« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 01:12:01 PM by listard-jp2 »

dieselgman

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 04:33:44 PM »
This is probably a matter of personal taste and habit... while I do respect and admire the German engineering (I first learned the trade in VW unit repair), I felt that the Deutz was more difficult to deal with than the Lister. I purchased basket cases that were already blown up and thrashed so that was my intro to Deutz. Perhaps they will just run until they destroy themselves and that is the problem I am commenting on. The Listers - also purchased from scrap heaps and the like, tended to be put back into service for only a fraction of the cost and difficulty of the Deutz units. I rarely saw a Lister with a thrashed bottom end, even after extreme high hours and neglect. Almost every Deutz F2L I encountered seemed to have failed in the oiling system and bearings.
I found simple things like injection timing to be tedious on the Deutz (i.e. shimming the entire timing cover) in comparison with Lister and their individual pump shims.

Just my opinion - 40 years in the making.

dieselgman
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 04:35:20 PM by dieselgman »
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BigGreen

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 06:12:14 PM »
The pig in a poke went for $900.
If the buyer reads this, let me know what I passed on once you have a chance to go through it.

Thanks
Dave
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Eugen

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2011, 03:41:56 PM »
It's been relisted? but is now a Deutz 2 cyl air cooled engine.

Eugen
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 03:43:54 PM by Eugen »

DRDEATH

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Re: 2 Cylinder Air Cooled on EBay
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »
When it becomes a DODGE let me know. LOL  Mike DD
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