Author Topic: Minor Rod bearing issue  (Read 7457 times)

rleonard

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Minor Rod bearing issue
« on: May 11, 2006, 02:46:23 PM »
Running the 16-2 last weekend, it seems mechanically loud.  When things were put away and I got the engine back in the shop I pulled the side cover.  The #2 rod had play.  I pulled the cap, inspected the bearing, (looks good, normal wear) and reassembled not on the crank. 

Also seems to be a lot of gear noise.  Is that normal?

Measuring the crank throw, diameter is 2.497.  Using telescoping gauge and micrometer, the connecting rod bearing measures 2.505.  That is .008 play that is felt and heard.

My local Amish dealer has new rod bearings and I have a call in to him.  It is difficult to connect with him, but I wonder what the new ID of fresh rod bearings will measure.  Is it 2.503 or 2.500?   IIRC new undersize bearings are available as well. 

I do not want to get into pulling the crank and regrinding the throws.  Only if I have to, I was thinking of getting the undersize bearings and boring to 2.499.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

rgroves

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2006, 04:58:09 PM »
Running the 16-2 last weekend, it seems mechanically loud.  When things were put away and I got the engine back in the shop I pulled the side cover.  The #2 rod had play.  I pulled the cap, inspected the bearing, (looks good, normal wear) and reassembled not on the crank. 

Also seems to be a lot of gear noise.  Is that normal?

Hi Bob

You might take a look at the idler gear - that's been a failure point on Listeroid twins.

Russell Groves
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

DirtbikePilot

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2006, 06:38:58 AM »
I think that boring a bearing is a really bad idea. There is a specific amount of soft metal (white or babbit) inside the steel shell. Removing some would probably take all the soft metal out and leave you with a steel shell or very close to it. That would be bad.  :(
Currently no listeroids, sad........ very sad.....
Just some other antique engines ranging from 40 pounds to 33,000 pounds each.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2006, 04:49:19 PM »
The best way to loosen a tight bearing is with shims between the rod and cap. I know you are thinking that the sides will still be tight, but really, not so much. Get some shim stock and some quality kitchen broiler foil (.001") and try that first.
Some of these bearings are old fashioned thick wall units with brass backing and thick babbit. My main bearings are this way. Unfortunatly my rod bearings are steel backed thin wall bearings.
I wouldn't machine the inside out of a steel one. I might had scrape a thick one. Guy had a good post on this.
Scott E
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Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

rleonard

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2006, 01:58:26 AM »
A visit today to my Amish friend solved the problem.  He has a Lister Technical manual that has sizes, limits, clearances, etc.  Per the lister manual the Crankpin diameter is 2.4975.  Mine measured 2.497 and the surface is smooth and polished.  He pulled a fresh rod bearings off the shelf and I was good to go (painfully expensive though.  We won't talk about that).  When I got back home and pulled the bearings out I found quite a bit of wear on the upper bearing half;, the one in the rod.  The babbit was gone and there was copper showing, resulting in the .008 play.

With the fresh bearing in things are much, much quieter.  After the checkbok recovers, might do the other side.

I brought home a beautiful 12-2 CS Lister for my friend .  This one was set up for electric start.  Ring gear on flywheel and conventional starter.

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

Halfnuts

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2006, 05:40:11 AM »
I don't suppose you could coax your Amish friend to scan and e-mail a copy of that technical manual to you so you could post it to this site, could you?

No, I thought not.  Silly me.   :'(

Halfnuts

europachris

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2006, 01:39:09 PM »

When I got back home and pulled the bearings out I found quite a bit of wear on the upper bearing half;, the one in the rod.  The babbit was gone and there was copper showing, resulting in the .008 play.

With the fresh bearing in things are much, much quieter.  After the checkbok recovers, might do the other side.

Bob


Bob, how many hours on your Lister?  Seems there are quite a few rod bearing issues going on at fairly low time in service.

Chris

rleonard

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2006, 02:47:34 PM »
I will ask about obtaining a copy of the manual.  The way he handled it it is precious!  This engine was sold new in about 1980.  It was in daily service for 15 to 20 years.  The bores have minimal wear and this engine has bever been apart.  Really looks to be in great shape, well maintained and kept clean.  The Amish shop traded it in for something with electric start and more power.

The replacement bearings are genuine Lister.  They are really proud of their parts!

If I can get the book I can scan and post.  Will be a few weeks before I see him though

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

MeanListerGreen

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2006, 05:13:48 AM »
Hey, you got a line on a 8)ny other original listers?
MLG Gib Key Pullers

rleonard

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2006, 02:07:36 PM »
Halfnuts,
Scanning and emailing are technologies not embraced by this man.  Light is from gas mantles or the sun, except in the shop where there are florescent lamps.  OF course power comes from a generator set.  He was using a 3 HP lister, but now running a small Lamburdi.  The Lister is in need of a overhaul. 

He does have many listers in the shop.  Most are trade in's and need overhaul.  Singles and twins.  Has parts too.  Location is central Illinois.

I will inquire about interest in selling them and reply back here.

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

Halfnuts

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2006, 02:42:09 PM »
Bob,

I was attempting to make a little joke.  What technology could be less Amish than the computer?  Heh, heh, he . . . h . . .     Oh well, I tried.

Halfnuts

rgroves

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2006, 02:48:10 PM »
Bob,

I was attempting to make a little joke.  What technology could be less Amish than the computer?  Heh, heh, he . . . h . . .     Oh well, I tried.

Halfnuts

Well I liked it.  If you can come up with a way to power a computer with compressed air, the Amish market is yours.

Russell
A country boy can survive - Hank Williams Jr.

Joe

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2006, 10:21:05 PM »
...but when the electric power does go down...who calls the Amish to let them know?
 :)

Joe
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

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rleonard

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2006, 04:58:18 PM »
Maybe I should start working on a compressed air powered PC?!!!  How about bulk fuel power?  Horse drawn?

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

Halfnuts

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Re: Minor Rod bearing issue
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2006, 01:01:45 AM »
"Ok now Mr. Ed. 
If Carol feeds you two apples, and you flip the latch on the gate
and eat 25 apples from Mr. Addison's orchard, how many apples will you have eaten?"

(Am I dating myself?)   ;D

Halfnuts