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Author Topic: Unground Muffler design  (Read 9163 times)

schoust

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Unground Muffler design
« on: May 11, 2006, 02:20:27 PM »
   I'm thinking about rynning my exhaust under ground into a barrel,has anyone designed this sort of exhaust setup??

Jim Mc

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Re: Under ground Muffler design
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2006, 04:47:25 PM »
I just set one like this up on a big  low-speed Ruston.  I used an old 30 gallon air tank, burried just under ground. (I'd not use a 55 gallon barrel, as the wall thickness is pretty thin, and it's much larger than needed) Keep the pipe from the engine to the muffler as short as possible, with swept elbows, and use the same size or larger  pipe as the exhaust manifold outlet. (check out ridgid conduit elbows for this - they mate with NPT pipe pretty nicely and have a nice large bend radius)  Downstream of the muffler, you can switch to a smaller size pipe, if needed, and the length is not nearly  as critical, since the peak flow rate is much lower.  You want the size of the tank (muffler, expansion chamber, whatever) to be several times larger than the engine displacement.

At 560 cubic inches my Ruston engine displaces about 2.4 gallons, so the 30 gallon tank is at least 10 times that.  A classic sized listeroid (4.5 x 5.5 bore/stroke) is around 87 cubic inches or 4/10 gallon, so a 5 gallon tank would work fine.  An old 20 pound propane tank might work well, if you're careful about cutting/welding on it.

Mine works great - only hear a chuff-chuff sound like a steam locomotive under load. 


schoust

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2006, 05:35:01 PM »
Thanks Jim thats somwhat what I'm looking for and it just so happens I have one of those tanks that I have to get rid of the only thing is do I have to worry about cutting on one of these things it did have propane in it at one time.....

Copybell

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2006, 05:46:04 PM »
Schoust,
   Hotater has welded on many propane tanks.  You might check with him about how to do it safely.

Copybell
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solarguy

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2006, 06:09:29 PM »
Propane is heavier than air.  Take the valve right off and leave with the hole down for a few days.  Then I like to fill it totally up with hot soapy water a couple of times to displace any possible remaining propane gas.  Dump the water and weld away.

For humongo tanks (100's of gallons) it is theoretically possible for some gas to permeate the metal and migrate out later, so then you want to take a bit longer to make sure it's totally empty of any residual gas, but that wouldn't really apply here.

Good luck and have fun!

Let us know how it comes out.

troy

hotater

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2006, 06:18:45 PM »
shoust---

I've made my fuel day tanks and cooling tanks from propane containers.   Here's how *I* do it and I'm still typing with both eyes and hands....

Open the valve outside and leave it open for several days...the cool/hot cycles are important.   Then pull the main valve. It's easier to do if you break or cut the guard off first.
   Squirt compressed air in the valve hole for about twenty minutes...do ALL this outside.  I thread a piece of plastic tubing on the air chuck so the air works from the back of the tank outward, but it probably doesn't make any difference.

Once the tank is flushed with air I've cut, drilled, sawed, welded, brazed and torch-cut on them without harm.  They still SMELL dangerous, though!!

All of them can use a complete washing with dilute phosphoric acid (Naval Jelley) and warm water to remove the rust and crust that forms in them.

WATCH for leaks in the future if they're attached to an engine.  They aren't too heavy duty.  Brazing is better than welding because they have some carbon that makes them subject to stress cracks from vibration.  I mounted mine with rubber shock absorbers but still developed stress cracks and seeps along properly pre-heated welds with stretchy stainless steel filler rod.

The easiest cooling tank or fuel tank can be made with three pieces of angle iron brazed to the tank so that it's a verticle tank with three legs of what ever length you want as long as they're braced or attached to a base to keep the top-heavy problem solved.

Invest in a hole saw the proper size and braze bronze pipe sections or fittings in the tank for taps or drains.  A forest green tank with bronze fittings is plumb PRETTY!!    ;D

The next time I'm in town with a trailer I'll call on my buddy at the propane place.  I need a couple of bigger ones for projects.  i think I'll extend the 'flush' time to match the larger volume.   :o

Re: Mufflers--    I ran the exhaust pipe into the top of a section of concrete sewer pipe through an old spare tire.  It's pretty well sealed and kills the noise without having to dig a hole.  ;)
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Jim Mc

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2006, 06:33:36 PM »
...  Then I like to fill it totally up with hot soapy water a couple of times to displace any possible remaining propane gas.  Dump the water and weld away.

I think it's even safer to leave as much water as possible in the tank while welding/cutting.  Whatever volume is water-filled can't possibly accumulate explosive vapors.

schoust

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2006, 08:14:05 PM »
       Thanks Hotater and anyone else,I just put a sump in my Factory Firebird tank,I must have washed it out a dozen times,When I started to weld on it I was crapping my pants LOL!!

mjn

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2006, 02:53:26 AM »
..snip..
Once the tank is flushed with air I've cut, drilled, sawed, welded, brazed and torch-cut on them without harm.  They still SMELL dangerous, though!!
..snip...

I used essentially hotater's procedure when I made a WVO tank for my Changfa.   I took the valve off , flushed it with air and water.  It still smelled like propane, but I went ahead anyway.  I turned it upside down on my drill press and proceeded to drill the hole in the bottom of the tank.  While I was drilling a thick greenish yellow oil came dripping out of the valve hole onto my drill press.

My drill press and shop smelled like propane for a week.  My theory is that the odorant used in the propane does not fully evaporate with the propane.  The oderant builds up as oil in the bottom of the tank over time.

Here is one of my tanks with the fill pipe brazed on before painting...


Yes... that is a piece of galv pipe, but I chucked it in the lathe and  machined the zinc off the inside before I brazed it on.
Changfa 195 7.5 kw ST.  WVO conversion http://martin.nile.googlepages.com/
Metro 6/1 DI Listeroid. Pumping water for fire control.
1933 Stover CT-1 hit and miss
1936 Farmall F-12 -- unrestored, still used to mow the field

bitsnpieces1

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2006, 11:57:36 PM »
  I remember what some of the 'Old Folks' used to do.  In the '20s and '30s folks used to run the exhaust pipe to a barrel buried in the ground (wooden barrel) with the top even with ground level.  The exhaust went down in one side of the top and another pipe vented out the other side.  If you listened you could hear the the exhaust air gently whoosing out the vent pipe but nothing else from the exhaust.  Les
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

listeroidsusa

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Re: Unground Muffler design
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2006, 04:23:38 AM »
Before you go to all this trouble building an underground muffler try a regular car muffler. I use mid to late 80's nissan sentra mufflers. On my genset you can barely hear it from 20' away. I venture that it is comparable with the underground system. The muffler has a 1 3/4" inlet and 1 1/2" outlet. I turn a piece of 1 1/2" threaded pipe down to 1 3/4" on one end to mount the muffler. It works great and is a lot simpler to set up, as well as being very quiet.

Mike