Author Topic: ST5 Intermittent hum  (Read 7147 times)

vtmetro

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ST5 Intermittent hum
« on: January 10, 2011, 09:09:58 PM »
Well, things were looking too good for awhile to continue I guess. Generator worked beautifully yesterday with a paralleled 120 output and the 120V AVR holding things to within close to a tenth of a volt at different loads.

This afternoon while running, however, I heard a return of the loud hum. Intermittently. I call it a hum instead of a growl, because that's what it sounds like to me. Loud electrical hum.

I did read all of the other threads here that the search brought up under "growl", but those threads talked about unevenly loaded legs in a two leg setup. Mine is paralleled 120V.

While nobody seemed to think it was serious (just irritating), in the other threads, in this case it is. When I hear the hum, a 100 watt incandecent bulb dims, and my Kill-A Watt shows a big droop in voltage. Not sure how much droop because the hum is intermittent, and the meter is a slow sampler, but I saw one momentary display go below 100V.

The AVR doesn't make a differece in whether it happens. Intermittent hum occurs with or without the AVR switch on. And the AVR doesn't seem to be able to maintain the output voltage during the hum.

As I said, the setup is paralleled 120 V output (not 240 two leg). There's a 1500 watt heater and the 100 watt bulb as the load. Roughly a half load on the 6-1 Metro.

I'm thinking it's either an intermittent internal short, or an intermittent open in the genhead wiring somewhere.

I guess an open in one paralleled "leg" could mean the other "leg": is momentarily taking all the load and thus humming like an unbalanced 240v 2 leg -- is that right?

But it seems that when people have this situation with a 240 two leg, it just makes a noise, but doesn't cause a voltage drop, does it?

That's what has me worried.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 09:11:51 PM by vtmetro »

Doug

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 12:24:23 AM »
Sounds like a short to be honest....
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

vtmetro

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 12:26:26 AM »
yes, Doug, I think so, too.


I'll open it up and look for hot spots. But if that fails, how do I troubleshoot an intermittent short? I just have a DVM and a Kill-A-Watt. A constant short seems like it would be easier to find.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 01:48:25 AM by vtmetro »

Doug

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 02:18:50 AM »
Ya thats tough without the right test equip.

I was once told by an old timer back inthe day they would use a low wattage light bulb connect the frame of the machine to a white ( common wire ) and touch the leads of the winidngs with hot lead. The light bulb being in series of course.....
If the bulb lit this would indicate there was a ground. ( this was with an extension cord plugged into a wall socket light bulb in series with the hot. get what I mean? )

I however would not sugest you do this for liability reasons ( I don't wana get sued if you screw up )

You more likely have an internal short thats between winding and not a ground. The machine will growl like hell when this happens.
The correct thing to use is a surge comparason tester but they don't drop out of trees.....

Something that can pass a high frequency pulse into the open ended winding and a scope to see the reflected wave might tell you something if you knew before hand what it shoudl have looked like........

I'm talking shit now nothing in the last 3 lines much help.

Resistance bridge would see the difference from one winding to the other but a regular multy meter is probably not sensative enough.

I will think about this more and get back to you
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 02:20:47 AM by Doug »
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vtmetro

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 03:09:34 AM »
Thanks Doug.

vtmetro

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 03:29:11 AM »
Educational purposes only: what would be different about the first one than just measuring the resistance across the windings and ground -- is it that with an intermittant the idea was high enough voltage to make the short happen?

With regard to the resistance bridge, could I make one and put the multimeter in the middle. I have a box of resistors and some potentiometers kicking around.....

Outside of troubleshooting, I could also do what you are supposed to do in the first place and solder all wire crimps, swap out the rectifier for a quality one. I notice a lot of wires are laying against raw casting edges coming through the case instead of pass-throughs, I know I could do better, and there's even one taped connection from the AVR. My only excuse is I've got about 2 hours on it total, and was planning to do a first class job as soon as I got the AVR problem figured out. Bad priorities I guess.

Also I read the Glyptal thread. If I can't find the short, can I kill it with Glyptal?





« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 03:33:45 AM by vtmetro »

vtmetro

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 09:30:52 PM »
Got it!

U6 blind terminal nut is tapped short. It bottomed out when tight and didn't compress the shunt lug going to U1, even though there was a washer there, too. (120V setup)

Looked tight, felt tight. But I turned the lights off to look for arcing, and there it was, little sparkles under the nut at the lug. Shut down the engine and wiggled the lug. Loose.

It took two more washers to get it tight on that terminal. Started the engine, and everything worked fine. Been running an hour under load and no intermittent humming so far.

Ever feel like jumping for joy and cursing at the same time? I was even looking at replacement genhead prices last night.


Tom

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 09:48:51 PM »
Yes, the best kind of fix. Good diagnostics too!
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Doug

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2011, 02:40:47 AM »
Yup thats a lot easier to fix/

Good job
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

vtmetro

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 04:00:34 AM »
Oh man, what a relief. I ran the Lister a couple of hours after that just to listen to it. Funny. I just liked hearing it was all okay.

Thanks guys!

Tom

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Re: ST5 Intermittent hum
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2011, 05:18:22 PM »
At 1120 hours on mine I still love to listen to it.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.