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Author Topic: Wmo  (Read 207977 times)

Bottleveg

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #120 on: December 28, 2010, 02:15:18 AM »
How about going at this from another angle. Build a vacuum still and power the electrics with the Lister. The resulting fuel from wmo should be clear of anything that won’t vaporise. The first ‘take’ from the still will provide fuel for the Lister and maybe auto fuel. The second ‘take’ could provide sump oil. The remaining residue could be taken for recycling or mixed with sawdust and burnt for heat.

bschwartz

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #121 on: December 28, 2010, 03:20:19 AM »
I see 'BOOM' in your future.
-Brett

1982 300SD, 1995 Suburban 6.5, 1994 F250, R170, Metro 6/ sold :( , Witte CD-12 ..... What else can I run on WVO?

thefinis

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #122 on: December 28, 2010, 01:35:06 PM »
Well dang it was planning on getting a lister genset and running it on wmo. Now it seems like problems will have to be overcome to do that.

Filtering should help reduce the amount of ash but does not appear to be able to fix the problem. A water mister might be helpful especially in dry climates. It seems that the cylinders are being reported as fairly clean when run on wmo so the water would be more to lower the exhaust temps at the exhaust valve and smooth out the knocks than to clean out the carbon. Might be helpful if it is too hot at the exhaust and that is what is causing the wear on the sleeve there.

IF you have a sufficient supply then cracking the oil is a very viable option. You can use the wmo as the fuel for the burner to run the unit. It would get rid of several problems if done correctly and provide a cleaner fuel to work with. To simplify things it should be done as a batch distill rather than a constant feed. You will need to have an adjustable thermostat for burner control. Sorry but I do not have the temperature list handy for the settings needed. I could find it but have to go to work now. I think it would work this way. First you  distill off the water at 212 f or slightly higher (adjusted for elevation) this would work better if you had no water to deal with so you could collect the light distillates like Bottleveg suggested. Then turn up the heat to the temp needed for vaporizing motor oil. It should make a clean oil free of most additives and contaminates that could be burned in a lister. Cool empty the sludge and start again. Anyone that can distill alcohol should be able to crack oil.

You can vacuum distill but that seems a bigger project than heat distilling.

Got to go to work

Finis

Bottleveg

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #123 on: December 28, 2010, 06:36:20 PM »
I got the idea some time back from this thread but was unable to gain more information.
http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=3413.0
An electrically heated unit would be more controllable and a vacuum still would be more practical to use due to the lower heat needed, also probably safer.
One of the things I can’t work out is the size and type of vacuum pump needed.

Tom

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #124 on: December 28, 2010, 11:29:12 PM »
Checked out rbodell's site and as of last post he only had 534 hours on his engine. But that was back in 2008. Some good pics of an ashed up precup on the bottom of the 2nd page.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

wagspe208

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #125 on: December 29, 2010, 02:53:29 AM »
Well, it needs to be determined whether it is abrasive blasting or heat erosion.
Simple, huh?
The next questions is.. how to do that.
Different cyl material? One that takes the heat.  This could rule out heat erosion. (sleeve material meaning something other than chrome)
Wags
Novo Type "S" 4hp
Lister 8/1
Engine machinist for 20+ years. Glad to help anyone out.

millman56

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #126 on: December 29, 2010, 11:18:39 PM »
Just my twopennorth,  my primary plant genset a Perkins 4-270 driving a 37 Kva alternator is fuelled using engine/hyd/trans/gear oils blended with 5% to 20% kerosene depending on the viscosity of the incoming oil,  the blend is centrifuged using a commercial clarifying centrifuge prior to use.

In September I removed the rad in order to repair the fan pulley and as the exhaust had been blowing the rad had a slight build up of crap in the fins, the rad was placed on some limestone based concrete and the crap was flushed out, anyway to cut it short the next morning looking at the crap on the concrete where I cleaned the rad I noticed  that it had formed a froth and was bubbling,  this would suggest that some kind of acid is being produced, sulphuric would be my guess due to the relatively high sulphur content of lube oil.

The accelerated wear on the compression rings and the upper cylinder area could be due, in conjunction with abrasive ash and higher than design combustion temps, to acid erosion,  if you think about it the ingredients/conditions are all there for the production of superheated acid but not having formal chemical training its just a guess.

In my opinion, formed by a wealth of incompetence, using lube oil at high concentrations wrecks engines but with the price of gas oil ever rising there is no comparison  between a few hundred pounds for a s/h engine plus a couple of days rigging it and thousands of pounds worth of gas oil.      Mark,




buickanddeere

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2010, 12:36:06 AM »
Well dang it was planning on getting a lister genset and running it on wmo. Now it seems like problems will have to be overcome to do that.

Filtering should help reduce the amount of ash but does not appear to be able to fix the problem. A water mister might be helpful especially in dry climates. It seems that the cylinders are being reported as fairly clean when run on wmo so the water would be more to lower the exhaust temps at the exhaust valve and smooth out the knocks than to clean out the carbon. Might be helpful if it is too hot at the exhaust and that is what is causing the wear on the sleeve there.

Finis

  I was thinking something similar burning wmo in a Peteroid to offset electrical costs with our "Time of Use" electrical meter. And to use the waste heat to warm the swimming pool.
  As somebody else previously pointed out. A mechanical/particulate filter has no more effect on dissolved materials in solution with a chemical/ion bond. Than using a 2 micron filter to try and remove salt from water.
   Run the engine hot under full load. Use water injection and be glad Lister/Petter rings/sleeves/pistons are cheap.

  b&d

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #128 on: January 03, 2011, 09:23:54 PM »
My Lister SOM made it past Christmas and is still going.
The oil in the sump is still needing topping up every day but the engine is still running about the same.
It has over 2560 hours on it but it does sound noisy from the top end.
Average electric bill would be about £400 per year so if I have to spend £200 on parts I still saved some money if I can get a year out of it.
I want to get on and set up the Lister FR1 generator but it's been to cold to do any work out side.
At least the FR1 has liners so that will make it easier to sort out when the WMO kills it.  ;D

Rom

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #129 on: January 05, 2011, 06:44:02 PM »
Just a thought, but what if you got a Indian cylinder block with liner? That way it would be much cheaper to repair the cylinder when it wore beyond its limits.

Rom

Bottleveg

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #130 on: January 05, 2011, 07:17:06 PM »
Just a thought, but what if you got a Indian cylinder block with liner? That way it would be much cheaper to repair the cylinder when it wore beyond its limits.

Rom

Or have an old Dursley cylinder bored out and fit a captive liner.

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #131 on: January 05, 2011, 07:40:39 PM »
Just a thought, but what if you got a Indian cylinder block with liner? That way it would be much cheaper to repair the cylinder when it wore beyond its limits.

Rom

I like that idea a lot, but I am not sure a Listeroid Wet liner block will fit as I think the Listeroid block has less head bolts than an original Lister CS
Spencer

Rom

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #132 on: January 05, 2011, 07:47:38 PM »
Yea, I guess it would be missing that 5th bolt that goes up into the head, so I guess it would be more expensive having to buy the head aswell.

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Cylinder.html

They have the cylinder blocks made for an orginal Dursley, but they dont have liners.

Rom

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #133 on: January 05, 2011, 07:51:11 PM »
Just a thought, but what if you got a Indian cylinder block with liner? That way it would be much cheaper to repair the cylinder when it wore beyond its limits.

Rom

Or have an old Dursley cylinder bored out and fit a captive liner.

I was quoted £200 to have my block lined.  :(

I thought that was a bit pricey to have done every 2000 hours of engine run time.

But when I start using the Lister FR I will soon see if the bore wear is normal with WMO or it was just a Lister CS problem.
I will still be expecting the rings to wear out at least. ;D

Spencer

spencer1885

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Re: Wmo
« Reply #134 on: January 05, 2011, 07:59:14 PM »
Yea, I guess it would be missing that 5th bolt that goes up into the head, so I guess it would be more expensive having to buy the head aswell.

http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/Cylinder.html

They have the cylinder blocks made for an orginal Dursley, but they dont have liners.

Rom

Cheers for that but I don't get on with that company as they tried to rip me off . >:(

I can get that same block from some one else for less money if I want to go down that line.

Cheers
Spencer
 :)