Author Topic: Lister VA Project  (Read 64719 times)

rleonard

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Lister VA Project
« on: November 13, 2010, 02:25:15 PM »
The VA picked up at the Helmuth sale is doing well.  It needs a job to do so I was thinking about this.  I scored a nice heavy 120 gal ASME air tank.  I an thinking about putting the VA up on top along with a Quincy 350 or 370 compressor head.  The combined mass will be about 1600 lbs.  Not sure if this will be enough mass to run without excessive vibration.  Only one way to find out I guess.  Nick is expressing his concerns







Bob
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DRDEATH

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 03:36:00 PM »
Bob let me know what you plan to use for pressure control. I have a 6/1 air cooled I want to do the same thing. I am just not sure how to control the pressure since there is no electricity. Mike
Breast cancer kills. It takes money to save lives.

rleonard

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 07:26:30 PM »
Hi Mike,
The plan is to use an unload valve.  The compressor pumps to a set point, and the valve opens.  When air pressure is applied to the inlet valves on the compressor, the compressor unloads, or stops compressing air.  A small air cylinder can also be actuated that idles the engine down.  When the tank pressure drops, the unload valve closes, the engine speeds up and the compressor resumes pumping.

No electricity needed.

Bob
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DRDEATH

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 08:33:36 PM »
Bob I have one of those for a gas engine to slow the throttle down and that lets the clutch pulley idle much like a go cart. The problem with my engine the throttle I believe is to stiff for the cable to throttle it back. I had thought about a pressure relief valve but I think it would be noisey.
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lowspeedlife

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 08:37:07 PM »
think "spring",  i don't mean the season that is so far away   ;D :D

   Scott R.
Scott R.

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Chris R

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 12:05:43 AM »
You scored a good engine there. The VA will run on the cool side. Even here in the Bahamas.  Rated at 7.5 hp at 850 rpm. It may be possible to throttle the cooling by restriting the the intake on the fly wheel housing or using a restrictor on the exhaust side. Thought about it but never tried.
The are/where quite a few of the VA and 8/1 SOM units here in the Bahamas starting in the early 1960's and phasing out as electricity was run to the various out islands.
A/C was a problem. Can't run much A/C on 4.24 to 5 KW. Many units where pushed aside for bigger gen sets to power A/C.

Several members here are pulling them out of the bush, along with the 8/1's and getting them up and running again.
The Indian parts have been a god send. Several years ago, pre knowing about the Indian parts, a 8/1 crank shaft was almost $2000.00. Other parts could not be found.
And many people gave up on the CS and VA as parts where either way too expensive or not available.

My VA has, to the best that I can calculate, has over 100,000 hrs on the oringinal crank. The crank is now shot, but the engine will still run. Very sloppy, new bearing will not fix. Waiting on a new crank from India.

The problems you will run into keeping the VA going will be parts not similar to the 8/1. Head and cylinder liner. There is a fin cooling coil that attaches to the injector. No known source for that. The engine will run without it.. The cylinder can be bored out and a linner installed. The head can have valve seats installed. Just about every thing else is common with the 8/1. Keep in mind that the sleave bearing crank shaft is different from the roller bearing crank that most listeroids come with. They are not interchangeable. OH! bottom cylinder copper gasket/shims I think are the same but the tops are different.
All the best with your project,
Chris Roberts
Abaco
Bahamas

Chris R

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 12:26:10 AM »
Correction. Bottoms different tops may be the same. I know more about VA'S than 8/1's. May have gotten that wrong as well.

Rom, Potter help me out here!

Chris

Veggiefuel

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 12:43:09 AM »

I suggest mounting the Lister and the Quincy on a pad beside the tank.
Simply tube from  the quincy.... through an aftercooler tube...... to the tank.

Reasons:

1] The engine and compressor are likely to heavy for the tank's top plate and mount feet.

2] The echo and noise from the tank with each firing stroke will be considerable and scary. (I tried this).

veggie
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rleonard

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 03:10:38 AM »
Veggie, Your advice is well taken.  That is how I have seen other Lister driven compressor arrangements.  Here are two pictures;





This is a very heavy duty tank.  The mounting pad is doubled 1/4 material.  I was wanting to achieve a compact, self contained unit that I could take to the engine shows.  Pump air to run steam engines and not have to fuss with a boiler.

Bob
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 06:13:27 PM by rleonard »
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Combustor

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 10:12:51 AM »
Hello Rleonard,
                    I have a VA SOM plant (heavier "electric" flywheels and cast base) which I move around occasionally, but for prolonged running I need to keep the fuel tank separate on a flex hose, and use a short  "pepper pot" muffler direct on the port, horizontal. Any other setup flogs loose. guess they were made to mount on a ton of concrete as the lister book says,  Regards, Combustor.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
   "Old iron in the Outback" Kimberley, West Australia.

rleonard

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 01:09:12 PM »
Chris R, I know where there is a new Lister crankshaft available.  Are you still looking?

Bob
Faster - Better - Cheaper  You can have any two, but not all three

listard-jp2

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 10:25:34 AM »
The problems you will run into keeping the VA going will be parts not similar to the 8/1.  There is a fin cooling coil that attaches to the injector. No known source for that. The engine will run without it.

While it is correct that this part is no longer available, its not a difficult item to manufacture (from a pattern), as it is a non wearing part. Although not missing on my engine the fins were well damaged, so I manufactured a replacement from Copper as I had a suitable sized blank, and it offered increased heat transfer.

Yes you can run the engine without it, but oil and grease will tend to leak down the engine from the rocker gear onto the finned cylinder head surfaces, which is not good for engines operating long hours in hot and dusty environments, as the dust will stick to the fins and significantly reduce the cooling effect.

Other observations that may be of interest:

The cylinder head gasket (3-30-31), and bumping shim (8-30-32) are both still listed on Sleeman and Hawkens website, so should still be available.

This is a far less complex gasket set than the CS watercooled version so I am surprised the likes of SEP are not selling it.

Why sleeve back to STD when oversize 8-1 pistons from India are available, as sleeving back to STD is going to cost far more than a rebore (after sleeving you might even need a new STD piston as it may be worn, particuarly in the top ring groove area beyond further use). By all means sleeve back to STD when you have exhausted all the oversize options.

Other common parts:

If you dont mind dispensing with the lifting eye on the rocker cover, then the cylinder block studs from the water cooled CS can be used in their place.

The rocker gear is identical to the CS version, but it is configured slightly differently using two instead of just one rocker pillar.

Both valve guides are the same, and are the same as the CS exhaust valve guide.

The fuel filter is usually a Crossland item which is the same as used on a host of later Lister and Petter engines.

Not surprisingly Listers raided the parts bin for bits when the originally designed this engine, as there are also parts which will fit from other Lister engines as well: If you are unfortunate enough to have one with a rotted out flywheel fan cowl, as I had. You may be surprised to know that this is very similar to the Lister HA2 and HA3 engines that have a sheet metal fanshroud, and this item is easily modified to fit the VA engine, and by default the cast iron fan impellor which bolts to the flywheel is also identical to the Lister HA2/3 equivilant.

The fan shroud side flywheel is also similar to the Lister HA2/3 version, but is not interchangable due to differences in the design of the hub, and in particular the mounting arangements (taper verses key).

The paper element air filter cannister is also a Crossland item which is the same as fitted to Petter PJ engines

bschwartz

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2010, 02:22:44 PM »
Bob... a NEW crank?!  I'll bet that isn't cheap.
-Brett

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DRDEATH

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2010, 07:53:42 PM »
JP2 thanks for the the information. In the group I am with one of the guys latched on to one of these set up with a SOM. Now this particular unit probably has less than 200 hours on it. It was a standby system. Well Scott decided he really didn't want the electrical part of the system so instead of tearing up a master piece he sold it to me. So I now own a VA SOM just like brand new. I would like to have a few spare parts of the tin works setting around just in case I should ever need it. I want to keep this in really good shape because I plan to use the air keeping the engine cool as forced heat. I will run an outside air intake with a filter to the side of the shroud and the heat from the engine will be piped in for heat. I will keep a CO monitor close just to make sure engine exhaust will not get mixed in. Thanks again, Mike DD
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Chris R

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Re: Lister VA Project
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2010, 11:36:11 PM »
JP2 thanks for the info.

I have cut and pasted to a word doc and saved with my other VA stuff.

Thanks
Chris