Lister "threads"

[SA245]

Hi Everyone, DrDeath finally got me access to the forum and so here I am- A very NEW member.  Am very happy to be here, and am working thru DD and a gentleman in the UK for some engines (Hopefully)
Was reading a document on identifying Listers of different types here http://www.stationary-engine.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11194, and came across this:

"All threads are Unified on the FR, a complete break from the BSF and BSW threads used on the CS and JP engines. (The 8/1 and 16/2 engines went on for some years as a major export product to Iran, and only stopped when the Shah was overthrown there)"

I am a former diesel mechanic here in the US, on ThermoKing Isuzu, Mercedes, and Yanmar engines with a dabling in Cat's, Cummins and Detroit's.  I am used to SAE and Metric threads.  Can anyone tell me what I am up against with this type of threading scheme?  Figured I'd ask here first.  Thanks to all,

Steve A.  (SA245)

[LowGear]

Once you get the wrench sets it shouldn't be too much of a problem.   

SEA?  No, that's the airport code for Seattle.  SAE!  Oh yeah that's what we call American.

Maybe the Crescent adjustable spanner isn't such a bad invention after all.  Best Wishes on your adventures.

Casey

[SA245]

Once you get the wrench sets it shouldn't be too much of a problem.   

SEA?  No, that's the airport code for Seattle.  SAE!  Oh yeah that's what we call American.

Maybe the Crescent adjustable spanner isn't such a bad invention after all.  Best Wishes on your adventures.

Casey

Hey Casey,
Thanks for the response, don't get my back up! I was hatched in the UK, Beaconsfield, Bucks, Lived in Chester 'til I was 10, then forcibly transplanted on my birthday. Lots of transplants here 'bouts! LOL. Spanners my butt!
I guess my real question is are there taps available here in the States with these threads (Unified, BSF, and BSW threads) for chasing threads or rethreading casting holes, etc., in the interest of keeping the engine as original as possible and not making an engine of "whatever fits in the hole at the time and is handy."

[listerdiesel]

'Unified' are UNF and UNC, Unified Fine and Unified Coarse.

Tables for the older stuff are here:

http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk/Tables/Mech1.htm

Note that the thread angle of Whitworth/BSW are similar to UNC and bolts and nuts will fit, but they are not the same and should not be used/mixed randomly. Whitworth are 55 Deg and UNC are 60 Deg thread angle.

Peter

[cgwymp]

British tools & fasteners:
http://www.britishfasteners.com/

Cheers!

EDIT: Found this link of the britishfasteners.com website. More than you ever wanted to know about all kinds of threads:
http://www.watchman.dsl.pipex.com/thread.html

[wagspe208]

So, are the nut and bolt heads standard sizes? Meaning 1/2, 9/16, etc or are they also something funky?
I tried m metrics and std. wrenches on a couple of fittings and they did not seem to fit propelry, of course it could have been layers of paint on them also.
Thanks
Wags

[Tijean]

The outside dimensions of the nuts and bolt heads are uncommon sizes too, like 17/32, 25/32 etc. I have thrown together  some oddball wrenches that either fit, or will with a bit of grinding. That, along with some metric sizes that happen to coincide  usually will get you by. It does not maike for a "purty" looking tool kit though. Hammers, prybars and north american curses are entirely interchangeable! 

[cgwymp]

So, are the nut and bolt heads standard sizes? Meaning 1/2, 9/16, etc or are they also something funky?
I tried m metrics and std. wrenches on a couple of fittings and they did not seem to fit propelry, of course it could have been layers of paint on them also.
Thanks
Wags

Just depends on your definition of "standard" -- they're British Standard Whitworth. Here's a set of wrenches that fit 1/8W to 3/8W:
http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.php/products/king-dick-combination-spanner-set-5-piece-18w-38w-7791

For the right tools you want something like that. But as Tijean says, for most things there's either an SAE or metric size that's real darn close....

[listerdiesel]

Don't forget that Lister diesels use injection and fuel fittings that are Metric, and also BSP (British Standard Pipe) fittings that mostly use Whitworth nut sizes.

There are also a few BA (British Association) threads on some of the control gear for the S-O-M units.

Peter

[lowspeedlife]

Kings's also sells taps & dies in just about every size imagineable, but they ain't cheap !!

http://www.britishfasteners.com/index.php/categories/tap-and-die-sets


scott r.

[SA245]

Thank-you Everyone for the excellent info on this "threads" question.  Lots of information for me to dig through, follow up on, and try and decipher!
Steve A (SA245)

[ottawavalleyboy]

Note that the thread angle of Whitworth/BSW are similar to UNC and bolts and nuts will fit, but they are not the same and should not be used/mixed randomly. Whitworth are 55 Deg and UNC are 60 Deg thread angle.

Peter

After buying my Lister VA7.5 (it's on it's way from Newfoundland) I discover there are no "ears"on the engine by which one would use a crane (which I have)to lift it easily, & have seen in this forum various suggestions to lift them the best one I found is to use 2 coupling nuts on the 2 lister head studs made longer by design  to  accommodate the coupling nuts to which I will screw in 2 -3/4 X10 heavy eye bolts...voila!

I have the hardware ready to go....& now I find that the studs are likely BSW....my heads starting to hurt now...

Will using the hardware I have damage the studs  or ( more to the point) be unsafe?
With 600 lbs plus dangling from  2 eyebolts  it would be comforting to know the threads aren't going to pull out.
I could "chase" the UNC threads with BSW tap & dies or just buy the proper fasteners from British Fasteners in New York.... but the thread types are so close!
I wish I had my dad's old tools now he was a tool & die maker a long time ago....

Edited for clarity....

[ottawavalleyboy]

I have the solution, after a night's sleep it occurs to me all I need is a BSW 3/4x10 bottoming tap to recut the threads on one side of the extended coupling  nut to match....D'oh....easy peasy

[Tom]

Don't sweat it, I used standard off the shelf 3/4" coupling nuts to move my engine and they fit fine.

[ottawavalleyboy]

When the engine got here the first thing I noticed was a inverted "u" shaped fitting held on with two 3/8" nuts to 2 studs that protruded through the valve cover. Looked like a local machinist had been at it....nice work from the brief onceover it got, looks like the cylinder head original studs were replaced with these turned down versions, my neighbour works with heavy lift cranes on high rises & he assured me they would hold & they did.