Author Topic: Jiang Dong R175A questions  (Read 13292 times)

dcgenbrian

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Jiang Dong R175A questions
« on: August 04, 2010, 05:42:52 PM »
Greetings all,
I am new here and also new to small diesel engines. I do have >15K miles on biodiesel in my Mercedes. I am on the verge of purchasing a Jiang Dong R175A from a guy that bought it to put on a sailboat to charge batteries and decided not to get the sailboat. It is a little 6hp water cooled engine which should be about twice what I actually need from a HP standpoint. It has only been run enough to make sure it works. I intend to run it on biodiesel and vegetable oil hooked to an alternator to charge my batteries and run my house when the grid goes down. I was considering an engine from Carroll Stream but they said that their injectors and injector pumps don't last as long on biodiesel as on regular diesel. I am concerned that the same will be true of the Jiang Dong engine. This engine looks like a Changfa 175. Does anyone know if Changfa parts will fit this engine and if so, where to get parts? I am primarily concerned with injector system parts now but probably any parts in the future.
I am trying to keep the engine for this experiment as small as possible for fuel economy and will probably run it at significantly less than full speed.
Any help, information, previous experience or knowledge would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks,
Brian


dcgenbrian

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 04:36:29 PM »
I now own this engine. First order of business is to get it mounted on something that has wheels. Second is to drain the oil and give it a look see. The guy I bought it from fired it up before we loaded it into my trunk. I fired it up at home to demonstrate it to the guy that helped me lift it out of the trunk.
Still looking for any knowledge at all. Looking for spare parts info and also want to know if anyone makes a larger diameter pully arrangement for it.

Veggiefuel

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2010, 05:02:16 PM »

I can't comment on the interchangeability of Changfa parts, but the Jiandong is known as a good brand.
Does this engine have a Direct injection head or is it Indirect injection? This may have some bearing on your success with running WVO.
The Indirect injection engines tend to do better with clean waste oils.
The important thing with WVO is to keep the engine loaded to 75% or better in order to keep the system at good operating temperature.
Do you plan to pre-heat your WVO?
If not, you may want to investigate running a blend (WVO/Diesel).

veggie


GM90 engines, Changfa's, Voltmaster Generators, Pellet Mills - www.energymachines.ca

dcgenbrian

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 05:46:11 AM »
Hello Veggie,
I would be happy to get Jiang Dong parts if I could find an outlet but I will try whatever else may work. I am striking out in that department totally. I can't find anything. The engine only has 10 minutes on it and I probably put 5 of them on there so I shouldn't need parts right away but I'm one of those "investigate and be prepared" kinda guys.
As to the injection question, the little book says "Single-cylinder, horizontal, water-cooled, four-stroke and pre-combustion chamber". I would take that to mean indirect injection but I'm looking at the diagram next to where it says this and if there is a pre-combustion chamber, it is miniscule. I know my mercedes has precombustion chambers.
Engine loading noted. I was planning to just drive one alternator and though the most I might need out of it is 50A so that is not quite 1HP. I could add another alternator but I'm not sure where I'd use the power. I have an old John Deere Starter/generator that I had though about adding so I wouldn't have to crank. Just hold the little valve open and let the motor get it spinning and release the valve. I might want to add a waterpump for coolant maybe or not I don't know. This is the smallest engine I could find in my pricerange. I would have gotten a smaller one if I could. This is a total science experiment but that's kind of what I do.
I did plan to preheat the oil. I read a post from a guy somewhere that had taken the exhaust from his lister and run it into the bottom of an old natural gas water heater where the flame normally goes and just poured the oil into the water heater tank so the exhaust would heat the oil. I thought that sounded like a logical use of that energy and was going to try something along those lines. I could also put a few turns of copper tubing around a pipe and put the exhauste through that and that would probably be alot smaller. I kinda like the idea of having some quantity of oil up to tempeature.
I will start with biodiesel at first since I have a bunch of that and I already know it works in my car.
That's what is in my thoughts at this point.
Thanks
Brian



dcgenbrian

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 05:12:52 PM »
I got a response from Jiang Dong in China recomending this place in CA to get parts. It appears to be their only contact in the US.
http://www.allpoweramerica.com/

I also got the email adress of a guy there and sent him a note asking about parts. I will report back on my results if there are any.
Brian

38ac

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 10:36:37 PM »
I am rather fresh with these engines but it seems like the parts have flat dried up. Not very many months ago there were dealers on Ebay and if you do a search here you will find names mentioned as parts sources from threads that are months old, one up in Canada comes to mind.  but none of the emails work and nobody answers or numbers are disconnected. Carrol Stream has a parts company tha operates  under a different company name I think it is called World Parts. The warehouse is on the same lot as the Stream motors sales office and warehouse in Michigan. I feel like a lucky dog as I got interested in these engines, found out they had been bannned and bought one just before they all dissapeared from Ebay. Sorry I cannot help you with your question about what fits what but I dont think that parts interchangability with the Chinese engines is quite like it is with the Indian CS listers were most every part has a std dimension. I have a 1115 and an R180 and have seen other makes with the same model numbers that were not even close to the same as mine. Good luck
Collector and horder of about anything diesel

purdypower

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hp to kw
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2010, 05:51:01 AM »
horse power to kw conversion with this engine is (hp \ .5 = kw)
As your 6.5hp engine will produce 3.25kw

3250watts\ 12volts = 270 amps

Your best bet will be a ford alternator  3g type  this has a 240 amp intermittent
output  190 continue  .   with a shaft speed of around 8k rpm .

To figure alternator shaft speed measure around the outside of the engine
flywheel  then measure around the outside of the alternator pulley .

Divide the engine size by the alternator size the number with be the
speed up number .  probably 3.75   so the alternator will turn 3.75 times for every one
of the engine  so at 2.2krpm  your alternator will be going 8.25krpm

Allmost all of the 2000 2004 diesel engine used this alternator they had two batteries.

This can be accomplished by getting an alternator with a 6 or 7 groove
serpentine belt.

This belt will go around the outside of the engine flywheel then to the alternator.

1st check to see if the flywheel is round if it is not  as mine where not
you will have to remove it and take it to a lath shop and have them
turn it.

!!!mark where the timing marks are!! 

Don't remove any more than is necessary to make it round.

balance it if they can.

Make sure it is tied down as it will shake on the combustion stroke.

hope this helps
Fred
rain rain go away

dcgenbrian

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2010, 06:08:59 AM »
OK my email has been forwarded to another guy that is supposed to answer me. I will keep you posted. Are there others that might want parts so I can tell him there might be more than just me looking for parts?

I was looking at the engine today and taking some measurements. I would like to have 5"-6" pulleys with a thin width. alternator pulleys are very thin compared to the pullies that came on this engine. I don't know if that will be possible to buy. I may have to fabricate that.

I pulled the dipstick and stuck my finger in there all the way to the bottom and pressed around in there. I did not feel any foreign material and nothing stuck to my finger. I was considering draining the oil and only opening it up to look if there was something in the oil. Since this engine has only been run for about 10 minutes I was wondering if it might be a good idea to run it until it gets hot at least once to see if any debris shakes loose before I change the oil. Maybe run it for 1/2 hour at 1/2 throttle or something. I would like not to have to open it up if I can avoid it for the moment.  Any thoughts?
Also, I can't seem to find where it says what oil to use and in another manual I saw online the oil was described in a way I did not recognize. Does anybody know what oil I can pick off the shelf at Walmart that I should put in this thing? SAE30 like a lawn mower? I use Rotella 15-40 in my mercedes. I am sure that is too thick.


I was thinking of sticking a magnet directly on the end of the drainplug to catch any stray metal bits when I change the oil.

That's all I have for now.
Brian

dcgenbrian

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2010, 06:14:23 AM »
OK Fred that is good information. I will have to digest that. It partially answers my pully desire.

purdypower

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diesel timing primer
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2010, 06:41:22 AM »
All the engines come timed for the commercial diesel fuel.

cetane = is the measurement of the oils ability to ignite under pressure
            the higher the better.

octane =is the fuels ability to not ignite under pressure but by a spark.
           the higher the number the better.

flame speed is the speed at which the chemical reaction takes place causing the
generation of heat.

    cetane  <----------0-------->octane
     btdc                  tdc           atdc


AS the piston approaches (top dead center)  piston compression
pressures approach 350 to 500 psi  

outside air temp of 70f  when compressed will approach  1200f

with a flame speed of 5ft per second .

diesel fuel will have to be injected 8 degrees (before top dead center)
in order to have enough time to burn so that maximum pressure can
be developed .  The faster the engine revs the injector advancer will
have to inject sooner more degrees btdc.  

This injection timing is directly dependant on the flame speed of the fuel.


  commercial diesel fuel about 5ft per second.

  Transesterfied diesel  ( to many variables to calculate ) about 5%longer

  used vegy oil heated  (to many variables to calculate) about 7% longer

What I am getting at is the drop in milage is due to the longer flame speed
that is also why the engine quites down so much when on the grease.

If you moved your timing for grease you could gain part of the performance back,
but if you go back to commercial diesel you could have problems.

 
hope this helps
fred
rain rain go away

toydiesel01

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2010, 11:47:13 PM »
to run your house when the power goes out I would recomend an inverter that works off of 48 volts.  Some inverters have a charger combined with them.  48 is the best for it takes only 2 1/2 dc amps to make 1 ac amp.  On 12 volt batteries it takes 10 amps dc to make 1 amp ac.  So you will use your batter much faster and will require much more charging.
just my 2 cents worth

Veggiefuel

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2010, 05:13:46 AM »
48 is the best for it takes only 2 1/2 dc amps to make 1 ac amp.  On 12 volt batteries it takes 10 amps dc to make 1 amp ac.  So you will use your batter much faster and will require much more charging.

48 volts X 2.5 amps = 120 watts of power

12 volts X 10 amps = 120 watts of power

Same thing !
The amount of power (wattage) used from the batteries is the same.

veggie
GM90 engines, Changfa's, Voltmaster Generators, Pellet Mills - www.energymachines.ca

dcgenbrian

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2010, 06:27:26 AM »
This engine/alternator arrangement is the last piece in my little system. My system is 12 volts at this moment because it started very small and grew. I now have 500ah of battery, a 2.5/5kW PSW inverter, a 750/1.5kW MSW inverter, 350W of solar panels and more in the basement, a windturbine, solar air heaters, a drainwater heat exchanger and I run a bunch of stuff on 12 volts around the house including emergency lighting made of a bunch of 24LED fixtures that draw little power but give enough light to avoid stepping on the black cat. I have an alternator hooked to a lawn mower engine that has been used to power the house 2 times so far. I have a big connector so it hooks right into the rest of the system through a hole in the garage wall so it can stay outside. I can go 6-10 hours before I need to fire it up but it's nice to have when I need it. I have gone 5 days without power here before and several times I have gone more than 24 hours. At some point I will go with a higher voltage but for now I am here. I made a little website as a place to document my projects but it is so far behind where I am at this point it is hardly worth looking at.
Brian


LincTex

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 07:32:12 PM »
48 volts X 2.5 amps = 120 watts of power
12 volts X 10 amps = 120 watts of power
Same thing !
The amount of power (wattage) used from the batteries is the same.
veggie

It looks good on paper, but in practical terms (speaking from experience) 12 volt systems running high amps have way more issues and require more maintenance than 48 volt systems.

The cost of the wire along should be enough to go with 48 volts. You can NOT cheap out by not using massive cables on 12 volt systems or you will regret it!

I can't say for sure, but it *appears* that the 48 volt equipment is also more efficient as far as heat losses go.

Veggiefuel

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Re: Jiang Dong R175A questions
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 02:44:46 AM »

It all depends on the size of the system.
For 2kw and less, a 12vdc systems is fine. Cables aren't that expensive.
I agree,.....If over 2kw-2.5kw, the higher voltages like 24 or 48 are more economical and practical.

veggiefuel
GM90 engines, Changfa's, Voltmaster Generators, Pellet Mills - www.energymachines.ca