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Author Topic: Decoke ST3  (Read 14264 times)

nuttyprofessor

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Decoke ST3
« on: July 19, 2010, 09:19:57 AM »
Hi Guys, got to say what a great forum very enlighting, I'm an Englishman living in rural France running a carp fishery. I have no mains electric so use a generator, I've had 4 different modern gennys and had nothing but trouble with them infact they are now all in pieces behind my shed. I'm a mechanical systems engineer by trade but I'm in my early 30's and not used this older type of engine (Metric LOL) I've been running a Lister ST3 since last November and other than topping it up with a bit of oil and adjusting the fuel solinoid it hasn't missed a beat.
Sorry if this question has been asked before (I've done a search)
Is there an easy way decoke the exhaust system?
Is there a way of preventing build up?
Thanks in advance
Andy
If it ain't broke tinker with it anyway!
Lister ST3 coupled to Brush alternator
Gravity defying lawnmower
30 year old 1.5 ton mini digger
Mitsubishi Evo 1
And a stunning wife who puts up with all my junk!

Combustor

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 03:16:04 PM »
Hello Nuttyprofessor,
                            Your ST3 is a solid unit. If it is loaded somewhere near  capacity and kept warm, it should not carbon up too quickly. However, if there is a buildup in the exhaust ports it is not too hard to remove. Intake and exhaust manifolds can be removed fairly easily ,you may need a long socket for the studs. Turn motor over till valves are closed then take a blunt screwdriver or similar and chip out carbon from the port and blow out with an air nozzle. Repeat for each cylinder. Squirt a teaspoon of oil into each inlet port for an easy start. Reassemble and run, and if the exhaust is not fairly clean on load, it's worth removing injectors to brush off any carbon on nozzle tips with a bronze brush or other non-abrasive means. You may need to modify a spanner or 2 to easily remove injector pipes, and a service manual is useful if/when you have to remove pump sidecovers etc to bleed fuel systems or easily remove/refit pipes from pump to injector. They must be carefully aligned and firmly tightened to avoid fuel leakage into crankcase. Check oil level after next run to ensure level does not rise due to fuel leakage. If you have further queries I am sure someone here can help, Regards,  Combustor.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
   "Old iron in the Outback" Kimberley, West Australia.

compig

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 04:02:44 PM »
If your talking about the actual exhaust pipes and silencer then soaking in caustic soda generally removes carbon.
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nuttyprofessor

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 07:16:46 PM »
Thanks for info guys, like the idea of the caustic soda except my exhaust system is a bit large! I'm using a silencer off a lorry its about 1 meter long, dia 300mm theres about 2 meters of pipe work as well as another small silencer which is all welded together, how important is the exhaust system? could this be contributing to the build up of soot? should back pressure etc be taken into account?
Are there no tricks to de-coking like adding something to the fuel or dribbling a small amount of water into the inlet manifold?
Combustor... there is a small amount of blue /grey smoke from exhaust when unit is running but it hardly uses any oil and I don't think its burning to much fuel, do you think this could be the injectors and cleaning them like you mention could sort it out?
Are there any special rules I should follow while running my generator?
Thanks again.
If it ain't broke tinker with it anyway!
Lister ST3 coupled to Brush alternator
Gravity defying lawnmower
30 year old 1.5 ton mini digger
Mitsubishi Evo 1
And a stunning wife who puts up with all my junk!

buickanddeere

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 10:10:54 PM »
  A heavy mist of water sprayed into the intake while the engine is working hard up to the point of almost stuttering. Steam cleans all manner of nasty stuff out.

compig

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 10:42:26 PM »
That is a very large exhaust for an engine this size !! It may be running too cool which would cause carbon accumulation. Does it actually look choked ?
Ideally the exhaust gas should be clear under load, after stabilising from a startup. Excessive fueling would cause black smoke though, blue grey would suggest oil burning, possibly caused by wear of the valves and or guides, piston rings and or bores. If oil consumption is low, it is most likely valve guides.
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
Lister A
Onan W3S Genny
Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

nuttyprofessor

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 09:22:20 AM »
My friend run's a demolition company and I got the genny through him, it was a backup genny for a Woolworth store and although I think it’s over 30 years old it had only done a genuine 12 hrs work and this was only when it was run up and serviced as part of a maintenance schedule. It’s a mess on the outside (at least 4 coats of paint) but the internals are as new.
I own and run a carp fishery in France and it is VERY important that the generator run’s as quietly as possible hence the large exhaust. The generator it’s self is buried under ground in a pit about 8 foot x 5 foot, it’s covered with 4 inch steel insulated panels. The exhaust comes up through the panels and the lorry silencer is mounted on top, there is a feed for the inlet and it’s kept cool using an industrial fan creating a vacuum, I have a 400mm pipe through the insulated panel reaching the bottom of the pit near to where the genny pulls it cooling air in, I then have the fan mounted on top of the insulated panel above where the genny discharges its hot air sucking the hot air out, just to make it completely clear the fan is powerful enough to pull air through the 400mm pipe to the bottom of pit and then expel the hot, it’s also ducted to blow the exhaust gasses away from the inlet.
Hope I’ve described that well enough.
Any thoughts people? If what I’m doing is bad please tell me.
How would others make the genny quite? ???
If it ain't broke tinker with it anyway!
Lister ST3 coupled to Brush alternator
Gravity defying lawnmower
30 year old 1.5 ton mini digger
Mitsubishi Evo 1
And a stunning wife who puts up with all my junk!

Combustor

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 05:30:40 PM »
Hello again,
               Yes the aircooled engines are good at turning fuel into noise, and containing it is not easy. If your current setup allows no possibility of hot air being recirculated to the inlet, then it is probably OK. A test would be to place a thermometer in the cooling air intake stream under the hottest conditions you are likely to encounter (hot day and full load) and if it much exceeds 40c then you may have a problem. With extra oil cooling they will tolerate about 45c using summer grade oils.
        Unless you have logged a lot of hours or your exhaust is very restrictive I would not worry about injectors carboning up. If you handcrank the motor over in starting mode with the compression lifts applied and you hear the 3 injectors each make a healthy "creak" then they are probably OK.
        Large exhaust systems which allow the gases to cool before discharge will always trap carbon, even when a motor runs quite clean. It is possible to deflect exhaust noise upward and not radiate it laterally by feeding the flow into a column of non-resonant material, (concrete pipe, brick, masonry etc) that discharges well above the head height of any potential listeners. Thus the outlet can be quite non restrictive. Other non restrictive mufflers of resonant material will only reduce noise to a hollow rumble. More restriction = quieter, but collects carbon. Devices such as exhaust heat recovery systems appear to be a problem still awaiting a solution. See some of the off-grid power and eco-living sites.
        What is the KVA rating of your unit, and how much of its output are you using?  It helps to utilise most of its output if possible during the hours that it operates. It should be quite happy at almost 100% of its continuous rating, given its low hours.
Toys include- Lister CS 8/1, Lister VA SOM plant and some Aussie engines.
   "Old iron in the Outback" Kimberley, West Australia.

nuttyprofessor

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 05:47:06 PM »
Finally back on line, its lovely living in rural france but not the best place for reliable internet.

Moved my temperature sender to the cooling airstream and its reading a constant 32c at an air temperature of around 29c so I'm guessing that's OK.

The I.D plate is on the alternator but the engine plate is missing so I don't know what KVA it produces but from what I've read I'd guess at somewhere between 10-15 KVA, most of the time I'll only be using around 2 KVA and this will only go up when the kettle or similar is used (runs my welder like a dream) will this be causing my carbon build up?

I run the genny for around 8hrs of the day, 4hrs in morning and 4 in evening this is enough to keep the freezer and Missus happy, from reading threads on this forum I'm starting to think that I'm doing it all wrong and what I should be doing is charging a battery bank and then using an inverter to produce the 220v I need, can anyone suggest a good set up and what sort of power I'd have, I'm guessing I could still run my welder, compressor etc directly off the genny.

Cheers Guys
If it ain't broke tinker with it anyway!
Lister ST3 coupled to Brush alternator
Gravity defying lawnmower
30 year old 1.5 ton mini digger
Mitsubishi Evo 1
And a stunning wife who puts up with all my junk!

contaucreek

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2010, 07:55:18 PM »
God I love carp fishing you lucky dog. I learned to fish from an Englishman and I can fish the waggler sliding ,laying on, on the drop etc and rig up my own quiver tips for my carpin' . We can float fish for trout here in Canada  :P
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compig

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 10:44:20 PM »
Running an stationary diesel for prolonged periods at low part load will cause more carbon accumulation. Ideally it needs to run at at least 75% load.
How about getting aircon for the house ?!

Just noticed you have an Evo !!! Me too, a 6 !!
I have often though about emigrating to France, have done quite a bit of French travel on bikes to various circuits, my favourite is Paul Ricard !  Love the place ! Where abouts are you ?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 10:47:21 PM by compig »
DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
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buickanddeere

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2010, 03:48:03 AM »
  People eat carp? I'll take pickerel/walleye/sauger first.  Even a ling/fresh water cod.

contaucreek

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2010, 08:47:41 AM »
I Have eaten carp, they are OK. The type of carp fishery he is talking about is a catch and release sport fishery...big buck business in Europe with most of the big fish having names YES NAMES and can be worth a ton of money when sold amongst fisheries.
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contaucreek

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2010, 01:37:29 AM »
PS-Sorry to hijack the thread  ::)
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nuttyprofessor

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Re: Decoke ST3
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 02:46:10 PM »
Air conditioning would be well cool! :D Could really do with a/c, the reason I haven't got it is because of fuel consumption and I thought it was best to have as little load on the engine as possible. What is best for the engine? I can deal with the carbon build up if its better to run as low a load as poss.

Your right contaucreek, I've got a catch and release fishery and several of my fish have names, there's Sausage, Colin, Katie, Gut bucket and Jermy Beadle who's got a deformed pectoral fin and thats just a few. If anyones interested have a look at my web site www.echopool.co.uk

Compig, I live in the Dordogne (S W France) we love the country but struggle to get on with the French way of doing things, they don't seem to have any pride in what they do and charge a fortune, example I needed a wheel bearing to fit to a mates Ford transit, French price 156 sterling, Uk price 25 sterling, OMG
My Evo was built by the original rally team for its managing director before full production so its a bit special, a lot of its parts are from other models for example suspension and brakes have components from the Shogun (makes ordering parts fun)

Sorry this post doesn't have much to do with Lister but its got to be good to get to know a bit about each other.
Anyone had any thoughts about the post I wrote about charging a battery bank (posted on july 25 at 11.47am)
If it ain't broke tinker with it anyway!
Lister ST3 coupled to Brush alternator
Gravity defying lawnmower
30 year old 1.5 ton mini digger
Mitsubishi Evo 1
And a stunning wife who puts up with all my junk!