PCV

[WWIProps]

Anyone consider replacing the reed valve with a PCV valve and hose up to the air intake? 

My lister 6/1 has about 4 hours on it and seems to generate significant fumes inside of its enclosure.  The engine is relatively clean and the exhaust seems tight to the outside.  The next obvious location for fumes to be coming from seems to be the crankcase ventilation reed valve.  I realize that blowby will be reduced significantly after about 10 hours of use but this seems like it might be a good modern improvement.

I have heard of runaway diesels due to overfilled crankase oil being sucked in through the PCV pipe.  Does anyone think this is an issue with a 6/1?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Scott

[hotater]

Scott---

I'm in favor of that!  I was thinking of moving the crankcase  breather to the dip stick location so it's closer to the intake and out of the way.  I bet it'll have to have an oil trap and drain in it somehow, though.  On that side of the engine the crankcase oil is going UP instead of DOWN so the sheet metal shield over the vent won't work right.  It could be a PCV in a 3/4" hose half way between the case and the intake would sort the oil from the air(?).

Mine creates quite a bit of smoky fumes that seem to condense on the flywheels and form a black goo....

[kpgv]

Racers sometimes use a device called a "Vacu-pan".
Its a one way valve that goes on the exhaust system, with a hose to a vent on top of the engine.
Venting to the exhaust would eliminate the worry of a "runaway" from burning crankcase oil.
I have no idea if they will work on a Diesel and/or a Single.....

Kevin

[WWIProps]

Hotater,

Just remove the dip stick while the engine is running and I think you will want to go to the other side of the engine.  1 or 2 seconds should be enough time to convince you!

Scott

[hotater]

Scott---

The same holds true for the vent side!!  I dont think there is a good place to take off  the pressure without a good oil sorting mechanism, but a pipe with coarse steel wool in it should do that.

I agree with venting to the outside, but I'm not sure the pressure of the exhaust would be good to put on the PCV valve.
  BUT, I'm going to try it both ways.  It could be a great milage enhancement if injected into the intake.    IF there's a problem I bet it comes from dirtying up the intake valve.

Hey!!  A great use for old air filters....put them on the crankcase breather!

[kpgv]

This post probably only applies to "singles":

  The thing to remember about venting one of these (6/1) is that every revolution is trying to move 87 cubic inches of air (plus blowby)  in, and then out of the crankcase.
  That is, I'm guessing, way more airflow than a PCV can handle.
  I have wondered if the "reed" valve in the stock breather is really such a good thing. If they are tuned right, they keep most of the oil inside, but to do that they create a vacuum that the piston must pull against every time it goes up.
  This is, I think, what is called a "pumping loss".

  I am thinking about a free flowing vent connected to a  tubular breather tank (~2 gallons?) with a fitting welded tangent to the tank, midway up the side wall, so as to cause the air to "cyclone" inside the tank. Concentric baffles inside and the spinning action should separate the oil from the air. On top maybe we can put a simple "K&N" style gauze filter. Anyway, in the tank the oil will (hopefully) be collecting at the bottom. This is a tried and true way to make a "Dry Sump" tank.
  Here is the plum....
What if we connect to the bottom of the breather tank a tube (or tubes) that have a wick (yarn, rope, ???) tight inside that we can now use to direct the draining oil to things that we choose, like the gear side cam bearing, or just back to the crankcase.
This breather tank will be fed by the largest size tube (hose) that can be connected to the breather hole in the crankcase cover plate.
I know that it will take some 'sperimenting to size this, and there might be other things to address, like water condensation, excessive oil accumulation, etc., but........ 


Kevin

[SHIPCHIEF]

I've seen alot of Detroit 671's with the crankcase vapors hosed toward the air filter, and never heard of one running away on lube oil vapor; besides, most of that vapor is leakage past the rings. I think it would be combustion gas (exhaust) and fairly non flammable. Listers could use an air maze tank with an oil drain back line on the bottom and a vapor line to the outside of the air filter. Clean the steel wool in the air maze when you change the oil. Use a foam air filter, they work well when slightly oiled. If you use a cooling radiator and fan, be sure it extracts air from the engine room, that will help carry away the crankcase fumes and exhaust leaks.

[WWIProps]

I hooked up a hose to a tapped hole I made in the bottom of my intake.  There is no vacuum!  I am thinking of closing up the intake a bit.  Any thoughts? 

[SHIPCHIEF]

I wouldn't throttle the intake air to create a vacuum for your cranckase evacuation system. The pumping losses increase, cumbustion efficiency drops, fuel cosumption increases. The Max KW output would be reduced. The engine needs all the air it can get, and you will start to suck dirt into the intake valve guides etc.
The Vacu-Pan used on race cars relies on vacuum pulses in the exhaust. You might tap into the exhaust near the head and put a plumbing check valve on it (3/8" swing check ?) and see if it draws a vacuum? GM cars used a check valve to draw air into the catalytic converter, I have one from a Pontiac, it is a round thing that operates like a reed valve.
I think the normal crankcase exhaust directed to the outside of the air filter is the simplest, and you can SEE the vapors before they enter the intake air filter. This gives a continuous indication of engine load and health.
The Listeroid may have intake pulsations, that would reqiure an enclosed air filter can with the crankcase hose led into the can on the far side from the air inlet.

[cujet]

The low pressure created in the crankcase by the reedvalve is a good thing. It serves to reduce fuel consumption by reducing the work the piston has to do. Think about all the work that single piston would do moving air out and back into the crankcase. Multi cylinder engines often have opposing pistons, thereby reducing the load on the bottom of the piston. However airflow patterns inside and engine's crankcase are important to efficiency.

Also, one can vent the effluent from the reed valve assy to the intake without any need of vacuum.

Chris

[hotater]

I found the DIYer solution---- I stretched an old sock over the CC breather.  No more smoke in the room.   

[kpgv]

Are those the socks with the glue and skin on 'em?

[t19]

Way too much personal information !!!! 

[lgsracer]

I think this would work great.

http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_ccv_intro/r_ccv_intro.html

[trigzy]

I bet George at utterpower might not like that contraption.   I like his philosphy of KISS.  (Keep it simple stupid)  That things looks waaaay too complicated to be bolted to a Listeroid.   The "sock" sounds pretty appropriate however.