An Indians Listeroid Project -Yellerator

[Amarbir[India]]

I do not believe VAs were ever exported to India, being that they werent designed until the 60's and India was not importing all that much in the way of British goods at that time. Least thats the story I've read.

Rom

Well ,
 I Have Never Seen VA ever in india

[Amarbir[India]]

In your search for information, you might try the utterpower website. www.utterpower.com.  For a sustained 5kva load, you are going to need 10HP.  I am guessing it is pretty warm there, so I would say look for a generator head at least rated for 7.5KVA, so it will not run too hot at a full 5K sustained load.

Sir ,
     So 8/1 Can run a 5 KVA But 10/1 And 7.5KVa Is Recommended For Long Runs Right ,But We Are Here With 240 Volts Not 110 ,This Makes a Huge difference Too IMHO .Pretty Warm Lolz It Was 45 Degree Celsius Today At My Town  [ NOT Fahrenheit ]   

[Amarbir[India]]

Well ,
 No One Makes Lister Slow Speed Type Listeriods Near Me ,but in a Town in Gujrat Many Make then ,So i Was Asking Also We Do Mave People Making Alternators But They Are all 1500 RPM Rated ,I Wonder if i Could Get a Slow Speed RPM Alternator For Lister

The 1500 rpm generator will be ok. All you need to do is have the correct size pulleys on the engine and generator and belt drive it. You will need a bigger pulley on the engine than the generator. On one of our generator systems we are running a 24v truck alternator that charges a 24v forklift battery. And use a 5000 watt powerinverter that pulls opperates off the battery like a UPS. That way I can run off the battery for 2-3 day and charge it back up with the generator. Or if I have a high power use I run the generator while I have that demand.

Billy

True ,
 I Need To Maintain 1500 RPM At The Alternator For Proper voltage ,I am Thinking of Adding a Gearbox Also Lolz .I understand it Has To Be a Pulley Drive system  [ Thanks Anyways I Really Appreciate Your Views ]

[Amarbir[India]]

Billy is right, I personally run a 1800 RPM generator head on my 6/1 running at a little under 650RPM.  I use the 24" flywheel face as one pully, and a 8.25" pully on the generator.  This size difference results in 1800 generator RPM at just below 650 engine RPM.

Sir ,
 How Does The Belt Remain On The Flywheel .Also Is The surface of The Flywheel Removed [ Deepened ]  in the middle to support this Belt ,What Make of The Pulley And Belt You Use .

[compig]

Billy is right, I personally run a 1800 RPM generator head on my 6/1 running at a little under 650RPM.  I use the 24" flywheel face as one pully, and a 8.25" pully on the generator.  This size difference results in 1800 generator RPM at just below 650 engine RPM.

Sir ,
 How Does The Belt Remain On The Flywheel .Also Is The surface of The Flywheel Removed [ Deepened ] in the middle to support this Belt ,What Make of The Pulley And Belt You Use .

This is one of the problems associated with using the general purpose spec Listeroid for generating power. The belt is just run around the outside of the flywheel , relying on just belt tension and friction to drive the alternator. Some users do suffer from belt slip and 'chirping' under load.
The original Lister CS SOM used a double groove flywheel and twin V belts.

[compig]

Well ,
 No One Makes Lister Slow Speed Type Listeriods Near Me ,but in a Town in Gujrat Many Make then ,So i Was Asking Also We Do Mave People Making Alternators But They Are all 1500 RPM Rated ,I Wonder if i Could Get a Slow Speed RPM Alternator For Lister

The 1500 rpm generator will be ok. All you need to do is have the correct size pulleys on the engine and generator and belt drive it. You will need a bigger pulley on the engine than the generator. On one of our generator systems we are running a 24v truck alternator that charges a 24v forklift battery. And use a 5000 watt powerinverter that pulls opperates off the battery like a UPS. That way I can run off the battery for 2-3 day and charge it back up with the generator. Or if I have a high power use I run the generator while I have that demand.

Billy

True ,
 I Need To Maintain 1500 RPM At The Alternator For Proper voltage ,I am Thinking of Adding a Gearbox Also Lolz .I understand it Has To Be a Pulley Drive system [ Thanks Anyways I Really Appreciate Your Views ]

A gearbox isn't necessary , in fact it should be avoided due to inefficiency absorbing power. All that is needed is the correct pulley ratio.

[compig]

In your search for information, you might try the utterpower website. www.utterpower.com.  For a sustained 5kva load, you are going to need 10HP.  I am guessing it is pretty warm there, so I would say look for a generator head at least rated for 7.5KVA, so it will not run too hot at a full 5K sustained load.

Sir ,
 So 8/1 Can run a 5 KVA But 10/1 And 7.5KVa Is Recommended For Long Runs Right ,But We Are Here With 240 Volts Not 110 ,This Makes a Huge difference Too IMHO .Pretty Warm Lolz It Was 45 Degree Celsius Today At My Town [ NOT Fahrenheit ]

Voltage doesn't make that much difference , but in fact there are less losses with 240 V due to less current in the windings.  What ronmar is suggesting is to use a higher rated alternator then actually required so it isn't being run at maximum output in a hot ambient temperature.

[Amarbir[India]]

In your search for information, you might try the utterpower website. www.utterpower.com.  For a sustained 5kva load, you are going to need 10HP.  I am guessing it is pretty warm there, so I would say look for a generator head at least rated for 7.5KVA, so it will not run too hot at a full 5K sustained load.

Sir ,
 So 8/1 Can run a 5 KVA But 10/1 And 7.5KVa Is Recommended For Long Runs Right ,But We Are Here With 240 Volts Not 110 ,This Makes a Huge difference Too IMHO .Pretty Warm Lolz It Was 45 Degree Celsius Today At My Town [ NOT Fahrenheit ]

Voltage doesn't make that much difference , but in fact there are less losses with 240 V due to less current in the windings.  What ronmar is suggesting is to use a higher rated alternator then actually required so it isn't being run at maximum output in a hot ambient temperature.

Ahha ,
  So That Means Can We Use a 7.5 Kva Alternator With 8/1 is it

[compig]

Exactly !!

[toydiesel01]

I'm in 100% agreement with comig

[ronmar]

OK, first rule of sustainable power generation:  You need 2 HP for every KW/KVA(there is a difference, but I won't get into that right now) of electrical load.  This rule has been proven again and again since the first electric generators were created.    An 8/1 will quite easily spin a 7.5 KVA generator, but that generator set will only be able to support a maximum load of 4KVA load because the engine does not have enough HP to support any more load than that.  The inertia of its spinning mass will support brief surge loads, but feed it a steady load of greater than 4KVA, and it's RPM will start to fall off/droop.   For 5KVA of sustained electric load, you NEED 10 HP.  The 7.5KVA head was as Compig mentioned, so that it will run a little cooler in your warm climate.  The engine in a hot climate is easy, just add a biger radiator to shed more heat.  You can't add a bigger radiator to the generator head, so one designed to sustain a heavier load will run cooler at a lesser load.

As for a belt drive, I am using a micro groove serpentine automotive belt.  It needs no modifications to the engine flywheels to run in a constant position on the flywheel surface.  The position and alignment of the generator pully in relation to the engine flywheel keeps the belt in line as it passes around the engine flywheel.  The generator pully has 8 small machined grooves that the micro groove belt fits into.  You can do this same thing with a standard automotive "V" belt.  For 5KVA, I would use at least 2 of these.  The generator would use a standard double "V" groove pulley, and the belt's inner flat faces would just ride flat side by side on the flywheel.  IMO, a dual belt would have plenty of friction around better than 3/4 of a clean dry flywheel circumference to maintain 5KVA of generator electric load.

What exactly are you needing to power that requires 5KVA?  The first step in any generator project should be a carefull study of need/load.  I have seen a lot of people grossly overestimate the ammount of electric load they need to provide for...

[t19]

I agree... first step... HOW MUCH POWER do I need.

Silly to size everything up to run 5KVA when 2.5 KVA would do.  You can then size the Engine and Alternator...this is important. 
1.  Reduces your costs of ownership - Small Generator is cheaper, Can run at lower speeds (650 rpm vs 1000), smaller uses less fuel
2.  Its a Diesel Engine... it needs to work...running a 10 Hp engine with 2 KVA load is not running the Engine at peak performance temp

My last house needed 5KVA of load to run all the systems.  My new house requires 2.5KVA... for this house a 6/1 or my old SOM would easily run the house... but for the old house I had to do load shifts and balancing to work.

[Amarbir[India]]

OK, first rule of sustainable power generation:  You need 2 HP for every KW/KVA(there is a difference, but I won't get into that right now) of electrical load.  This rule has been proven again and again since the first electric generators were created.    An 8/1 will quite easily spin a 7.5 KVA generator, but that generator set will only be able to support a maximum load of 4KVA load because the engine does not have enough HP to support any more load than that.  The inertia of its spinning mass will support brief surge loads, but feed it a steady load of greater than 4KVA, and it's RPM will start to fall off/droop.   For 5KVA of sustained electric load, you NEED 10 HP.  The 7.5KVA head was as Compig mentioned, so that it will run a little cooler in your warm climate.  The engine in a hot climate is easy, just add a biger radiator to shed more heat.  You can't add a bigger radiator to the generator head, so one designed to sustain a heavier load will run cooler at a lesser load.

As for a belt drive, I am using a micro groove serpentine automotive belt.  It needs no modifications to the engine flywheels to run in a constant position on the flywheel surface.  The position and alignment of the generator pully in relation to the engine flywheel keeps the belt in line as it passes around the engine flywheel.  The generator pully has 8 small machined grooves that the micro groove belt fits into.  You can do this same thing with a standard automotive "V" belt.  For 5KVA, I would use at least 2 of these.  The generator would use a standard double "V" groove pulley, and the belt's inner flat faces would just ride flat side by side on the flywheel.  IMO, a dual belt would have plenty of friction around better than 3/4 of a clean dry flywheel circumference to maintain 5KVA of generator electric load.

What exactly are you needing to power that requires 5KVA?  The first step in any generator project should be a carefull study of need/load.  I have seen a lot of people grossly overestimate the ammount of electric load they need to provide for...

Well ,
 thanks for The Detailed Explanation .In My Case i have a 14 HP engine And a 5 KVA Alternator .Why Because the Fellow i Asked For a Lister Generator Gave Me this .Anyways In India i have asked many people in rajkot thay all tell me 8/1 for 5kva .I Do not Know But This is the Truth .anyways we are not running any Ac in the household on this just normal fans and lights and also my wife's machines for stitching clothes .Also a Fridge and 2 Coolers .They Also use the Press for Ironing Clothes Briefly .I did Estimate Load of 3.5 KVa for this hence i got a 5 KVA .

[Amarbir[India]]

I agree... first step... HOW MUCH POWER do I need.

Silly to size everything up to run 5KVA when 2.5 KVA would do.  You can then size the Engine and Alternator...this is important. 
1.  Reduces your costs of ownership - Small Generator is cheaper, Can run at lower speeds (650 rpm vs 1000), smaller uses less fuel
2.  Its a Diesel Engine... it needs to work...running a 10 Hp engine with 2 KVA load is not running the Engine at peak performance temp

My last house needed 5KVA of load to run all the systems.  My new house requires 2.5KVA... for this house a 6/1 or my old SOM would easily run the house... but for the old house I had to do load shifts and balancing to work.

Andrew ,
 Thanks For the Info ,Today I ripped the 14/1 Lister That That Cheat Had Given Me and Gave It a New Life It was a Whole Days Effort And I clicked More then a 100 Photos Of Each and every step that Was Done ,I got so Much Knowledge of The Generator And the engine .I worked with Two Terrific People One Was Mr Sood From Kharar and Second Was Mistri Pal [ Mistri =  Mechanic ] .Pal is 60 Years Old Gentlemen [ Dyes His Beard Lol ]  and Has Worked On Lister Engines for 40 Years ,There is No Lister engines Sold In My Area Thats Not Passed Via His Hands .We Ripped the 14/1 engine to Its Core And Installed everything Again .It Was Too Late At It Got Dark There is Still Some External Leakage Of Fuel But i Would Be Able To Counter the Same Tomorrow .Once i Get These Photos I Will start a Step By Step what We did to Teach Newbies Like Me ,I Love Lister Engines

[ronmar]

Anyways In India i have asked many people in rajkot thay all tell me 8/1 for 5kva .

A 5 KVA alternator is a good match with an 8/1 engine, and will have good electrical surge capacity, such as starting a reefer/freezer or electric pump.  But you will not be able to sustain 5KW of load with it IMO, particularly if you are any real altitude above sea level, or at any real great temperature.  Both these will reduce available power output from the engine.  I myself have a 6/1 paired up with a 5KW alternator.  But the engine starts running out of steam with a little over 3KW of electrical load(thick exhaust smoke, and excessive drop in RPM/Frequency.  A 4KW alternator might have been a better choice, but in my case, I have a small well pump that must be started so the added electrical capacity is good in my case.  The 5KW generator head was also much more available than the 4KW head is...

One of the beauties of these engines, is that they can be derated quite easilly to tailor their power output to the required load.  You have a 14/1?  Take a few hundred RPM off of it(drop from 1000 RPM down to 700?) and you can make it into a 8/1.  All this requires is a different governor spring, and of course a different size pully on the generator head to spin it at it's rated 1500 RPM/50HZ at the new, lower engine RPM.  This will keep the engine at a good healthy load for cleaner running, and burn less fuel than it would spinning at 1000 RPM to power the same 3.5KVA load.  Need more power somewhere down the road?  Add some engine RPM and swap pullys to adjust generator RPM to the new engine RPM...  I think you probably have most of what you need to power your place, you just have to customize it for best performance.