Author Topic: Vegie oils & conversions  (Read 14304 times)

dkwflight

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Vegie oils & conversions
« on: April 28, 2006, 12:49:47 AM »
Hi Group
I ran across this on the webb. I haven't read it all yet. Aparently one of the keys is high temps...150C.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html
Dennis in fla
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

akghound

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JTF Info
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2006, 02:17:44 PM »
Please do not take any information from that site as the Gospel. It has some VERY inaccurate and out dated information. However that being said, it is an OK place to get some ideas rolling. If you are seeking information on running WVO here are a couple good places to look.
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/
Ken Gardner
One Day At A Time
96 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 / Homebuilt WVO conversion
Listeroid Generator on WVO / Living off grid

solarguy

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2006, 03:41:02 PM »
Ditto.

The Infopop group is very knowledgeable, friendly, helpful and pretty much unbiased.  Minimum of political BS from either side.

The Journey To Forever is run by a guy who has "issues" and lots of them.  So yeah, use the site for inspiration, but don't build or make anything based on his plans unless you double check it elsewhere first.  The worst offender is his "Foolproof" method of making biodiesel.  It's the laughingstock of the biodiesel community and jokingly referred to as the Fuelproof method, as in, almost guaranteed to not make fuel.

Finest regards,

troy

Halfnuts

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2006, 05:49:57 PM »
Ok, so what's your preferred method?

Halfnuts

akghound

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 07:01:33 PM »
Ok, so what's your preferred method?

Halfnuts

I took a brief look at making bio-diesel and then opted for running WVO. I'm more of a Gear Head then a Chemist so going the WVO route simply made more sense to me. I made a few one time modifications to the engine to run WVO. Making Bio-d seems to be a full time job. Filtering WVO is simple, quick and easy.
If I was to go the Bio-d route I would take a very serious look at the Appleseed Producer http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/appleseedprocessor/. It looks like it is easy to build from a few junk yard parts. The reports of the Bio-d made from them appear to be good, it just might be the simplest setup out there. However,  I'm really not totally up on it.
Ken Gardner
One Day At A Time
96 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 / Homebuilt WVO conversion
Listeroid Generator on WVO / Living off grid

sawmiller

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 09:06:05 PM »
Hi akghound

I built one of the appleseed processers, also built the washer . They both work great. only use the bio to start on . Use wvo  after warm up. I've got about 400 gallons of wvo already filtered. I pick up about 30 gallons a week.





regards
Tim


binnie

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 11:01:26 PM »
Hi Sawmil
Can you go into a little more detail as to what is involved in your pick up proceedure? Do you make one run a week, where do you get it from? Restaurants. What were the reactions when you approached them. What was your approach? Do you need a truck for this, and special hand pump? What is your storage set up like & what do you use for the filtre system...Share your experience pls. Just considering all this for the future...now, it will be deisel & back up...but am making plans...tks binnie
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

akghound

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2006, 04:17:40 AM »
May I share a little on how I collect and process WVO?
Most of the WVO I get is placed back into the original “Cubies”, 4 ½ gallon containers. This seems to be the best for me as there is very little water to deal with compared to “Dumpster Diving”. I do have a couple places where I do some “Diving”. For these I have a Vacuum Sucker that I built. I draw a vacuum in a 125 gallon tank, pull up to the barrels in back of the restaurant and draw the oil from them. It draws about 100 gallons in around 5 minutes, a little longer when the weather is cold.
Upon returning home with the cubies, I place them in the generator shed where they stay warm. When using the Sucker Wagon I use air pressure to push the WVO into 55-gallon drums that I can pump from. These are placed outside of the generator shed in the warm sun. I can only pump from these on warm days.
For filtering I have a 55-gallon drum, open top type with lid. In the lid I cut 4each 5 ¾ “ dia holes. I place a common galvanized 5X6’ stove pipe reducer 5” end down in these holes with a bag filters hanging through them. Pour or pump the dirty oil through the filters into the barrel.
Inside the barrel I have a coolant heat exchanger to warm all the oil up to the 100 degree(f) range. This comes from the Lister engine heat/coolant loop. There also is an electric water tank heating element about 4” off the bottom of the barrel for quicker heating so I can switch the engine to run on WVO sooner in the colder weather.
Heat the oil to at least 100*(f) during the day, then turn off the heat for the night. The next morning drain the water-laden oil off the bottom before reheating. Draw the clean “Dry” oil off the top. I tap about mid way for the Generator fuel.
If you reheat the water rich oil in the bottom the water will be returned to the oil, not good, but no big deal as it will drop out the next time it cools.
This is a start, I’ll continue tomorrow. Maybe I can get some pictures.
Ken Gardner
One Day At A Time
96 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 / Homebuilt WVO conversion
Listeroid Generator on WVO / Living off grid

binnie

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2006, 04:40:34 AM »
Thanks Ken,
Look forward to some picts...sounds like a good working set up.
binnie
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

dkwflight

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2006, 05:24:22 AM »
Hi Group
The link I posted is new, to me, wtih links to manufacturers in europe and the US.
They are modifing diesels to use pure vegie oils, not bio diesel.
The key is heat. all of the kits use heaters and modified injectors(higher pressures)= finer mist of oil plus hotter glow plugs.
What does this have to do with Listeroids?
We can preheat the oil going to the injecter pump and the day tank supplying the engine!. One article said up to 150 Centegrade!. This is the key, I think.
Make the oil as hot as you can get it. Insulate the high pressure line to the nozzle. Start the engine on petro diesel and when hot and under loadswitch the source over to WVO. Run the engine as hot as you can.
This is the way I am going to run mine. As soon as I can.
Dennis
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 05:28:45 AM by dkwflight »
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

sawmiller

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2006, 03:33:34 PM »
Hi binnie

I make one run a week . Two places put it back in the containers , one puts it in a barrel,this i have to pump. I get the wvo from resturants. There are 3resturants within 3/4 of a mile ,small town 300 people. Kinda puzzled when you first ask them ,then you get to tell them about your engines. Plus it saves them any where from 30 to 50 dollars a month. You will need a truck , wvo will stick to everything. Just one drop can cover a square yard and you will get a leak or a drip. I do use a multi stage filter system. I let it settle for a cupple of week to start the filteration process useing old blankets to get the coarser stuff out,then put it in my bigger tanks . I have 750 gal storage   A LITTLE TIME LOTS OF SAVINGS


REGARDS
TIM

binnie

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2006, 06:02:23 PM »
Thanks Tim,
I am a busy guy but do get some reg. time off to play, and in that time I am toying with the idea of going cogen down the line. Looking at the Smart (cdn) car...& a vegie conversion kit for transport and trying to go against the trend of being locked into the tyrany of the Corporate global plan. The writing is on the wall, and in all good conscience I cannot contribute anylonger towards Corporate enslavement hell bent on destruction of the planet. Planning to leave as small a footprint as possible. I am a bit embarrased by my collection of Classic cars, but have a little emotional difficulty in letting go of a passion that was so strong. It will come.
My plans are not driven as much by the amount of savings that it will bring, but that is a plus too, but rather by the discust I have for a system that has now taken over in place of our governments, to exact its toll on everyone without conscious nor morals nor priciples. If we don't opt out now, things will never change. I hear from you guys, forwhatever reasons you are doing it, that it can be done. I will get there too. Thanks binnie

Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

sawmiller

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2006, 06:29:32 PM »
Hi binnie
Good post, That basicaly why i'm doing it.My light bill for last month is 170.00 Also if you are going to run straight wvo go to fattywagon.com for inj line heaters. i've run almost 200 hrs the last 2 weeks on my 10/1 on wvo and bio.


regards
Tim

akghound

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2006, 06:51:48 PM »
I have posted some pictures in my gallery

Gen Shed

Filtration Barrel

Top of filtration barrel
Check out the gallery for more pictures and better discriptions
If you have any questions please feel free to ask away
Ken Gardner
One Day At A Time
96 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 / Homebuilt WVO conversion
Listeroid Generator on WVO / Living off grid

akghound

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Re: Vegie oils & conversions
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 08:17:50 PM »
One article said up to 150 Centegrade!. This is the key, I think.
Make the oil as hot as you can get it. Insulate the high pressure line to the nozzle. Start the engine on petro diesel and when hot and under loadswitch the source over to WVO. Run the engine as hot as you can.
This is the way I am going to run mine. As soon as I can.
Dennis

Running these engines on WVO works just fine, however there seems to be a lot of mis-information about doing so. Be careful, 150*(c) is over 300*(f), I wonder what this would do to the Injector Pump. This seems to be way too hot, I believe that 180-200(f) is more in tune to what would work best.
There also was mention of changing the injector, I'm using the stock injector with no problem.
It is true, starting and shuting down on diesel or bio-d is a good idea. I don't know why one would have to switch when over "Under Load", I don't think it matters what the load is when the switch is made.
Be careful running the engine too hot, again all you need is 180-200*(f)
This has been my experance anyway.

Ken Gardner
One Day At A Time
96 Dodge Cummins 2500 4x4 / Homebuilt WVO conversion
Listeroid Generator on WVO / Living off grid