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Poll

Is global warming caused by .....

Man ?
1 (5.3%)
Natural climate fluctuation ?
11 (57.9%)
Both the above ?
7 (36.8%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: January 13, 2010, 11:36:11 PM

Author Topic: Global warming ?  (Read 12681 times)

compig

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Global warming ?
« on: December 14, 2009, 11:36:11 PM »
Just looking for a simple poll of prevailing oppinion not a big debate , thats happening in other threads.
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t19

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 12:10:35 AM »
Oh my god, this Lord Monckton is fantastic as he talks to this Greenpeacer and basically calls her an idiot without having to say a thing... great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzkB5DuveDE

There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

Doug

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 12:47:50 AM »
Cause it's the thread that never ends.....

And it goes on and on and on .....

Yes its the thread that never ends

And it goes on and on and on....
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Jim Mc

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 12:54:52 AM »
Ahh yes, majority rules.  If enough people think it's real, never mind real science...




mobile_bob

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 05:29:24 AM »
this is why i find it analogous to "religion"

we can prove there being a God with all sorts of psuedo science, but it really comes down to
belief and faith.

the odd thing is "if" the science is so good in support of AGW, they would never have had to fudge the numbers

the science would have proven it out quite easily

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

dieseldave

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 07:25:54 AM »

  DOPE-enhagen is just a big scam to tax everything we use , and to milk the working class dry!

  Look at Al Gore. He is now a BILLIONAIRE over this global warming non-sense. He has a 20 room mansion with a heated pool. His energy consumption alone is equivalent to 20 1200sq ft houses.

  OH, then there's his PRIVATE JET to burn holes in the upper atmosphere!

compig

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 11:59:39 AM »
Some more from Lord Monckton ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cef-NSqFmAE&feature=related

If this climate change BS doesn't result in another major global conflict I don't know what will !!
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Doug

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2009, 02:50:41 PM »
Right off  I don't trust anyone who was an advisor to Thatcher and claims to have the best interest of working people at heart.

He is a hereditary peer, a UK seperatist, believes in flat taxes that favour the rich, deregualtion and free trade.

Who do you think has a, more dangerous agenda?
This mans sort of thinking has created a finacial collaps, huge manufacturing job losses,  budgets that shift the the tax burdon onto working people and away from multinationals, and the ruling classes that can move wealth across boarders to avoid taxation....
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compig

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 03:19:56 PM »
You don't have to trust him , just check the data.  It's the eurocrats and environmentalists I'd be more concerned about , as  Monckton says , once that treaty is signed the recent financial crisis will seem welcome !!  When we're paying a weeks wages for a gallon of gas to prevent car use , and unable to afford anything beyond means of survival it's too late. The treaty will truly make the rich richer !!
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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 03:46:05 PM »
I will not sit here and debate global warming.

But I will say this...

Who are the people with he most to loose if treaties are put into place that limit the growth of global trade and fossil fuel use. Those are the people who invest globale trade, primary resources and speculative trading.

To hear Lord Monckton talk about talk about Coal miners make me want to puke. He didn't care about them when Thatcher broke the unions and I am fairly sure he is more concerned about ther profitability of the coal produces today then "the 100,000 men on a west Virginia mountain top" he claims to have spoken too in a speech.

You want fair taxes you have a progressive tax system in the UK already with the VAT. A proper fair consumption tax....
Next thing that needs to be overhauled is a reversal of the silly and dangerous trickle down economic ( Reaganomics for those In the USA ) theory that states letting the top 10 % keep more of their money and they will spread the wealth. Yes they do spread the wealth to paper economies and foreign tax havens.

Last point about your gallon of gasoline. I think it will become more expensive in the future regardless of what happens but the UK is a small place with a lot of rail. Simply put it should be far cheaper and more efficient to move people by rail then by car. The freight industry has proven this and now its time to make public transportation something people want to use. There is no reason why it should not be as easy to step on a bus or rapid transit as to start your car and wait in traffic. Honestly the Mooney saved on the car infrastructure alone  is stupid.

Think about how stupid it is to pay to move 2 tons of steel around with you to get a quart of milk. But you and I were raised to think this is fine and normal, but you would not think that way of you had to push it around would you? No you would buy a bicycle...

There are just so many things wrong with how we live, what we produce and how we consume it and how of course we tax.
It just blows my mind....
Global worming cooling what ever.
Take care pollution, environmental degradation and distruction, resource depletion and  global warming will take care of its self
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compig

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 05:09:23 PM »
Really don't want to get into a political debate but there are a few misconceptions about the UK in there.
The UK is a small country but it does not have alot of rail and what there is there is woefully inefficient , outrageously expensive and dangerous. The rail infrastructure is heavily biased to the Southeast and a couple of other cities , regional and rural is a joke. Public transport as a whole is hopeless and excessively expensive.
VAT is far from fair , that and taxes on fuel are there to buoy up a hopelessly inefficient government.
The coal industry mucked itself , pretty much like the car industry and steel industry. The unions lived in a bygone age and failed to adopt progressive thinking.
I don't condone the way miners were treated , but it was the unions to blame ultimately.
Coal , Steel and the car industry were heavily subsidised by the Government and it was bankrupting the country. Those industries needed to downsize and become more efficient , they refused , the government would not be held to Ransom so they went. It was a double entendre though , because those commodities then needed to be imported. Coal is a filthy polluting fuel though so it was destined to end anyway.
My point about this treaty is simple , once the governments of the world , the USA included , has an excuse to raise environmental related taxes without question the average Joe is screwed. All types of fuel will ascend in price to the point where it cannot be afforded for everyday use but even then will still make unbelievable tax revenue. And the governments can claim a clear conscience.
Don't forget the rules of defeating an enemy , restrict movement and supplies first , then they cannot fight. Those in power and those with money want to stay there , we are just the means for them to do that.
Taxes are never spent fairly or efficiently , the fat cats are just skimming as in any other scam.
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Doug

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2009, 05:50:13 PM »
I hear you and I understand your argument but something needs to be done to slow the concentration of wealth in the top 10% of peoples hands where it does not get taxed at the rate you and I pay.

This is reducing our standard of living, weakening the tax base and creating a poor working underclass that will do just about anything to simply pay the rent.

AS I see it Consumption taxes encourage people to pay off debt and save. They encourage people to repair rather than scrap and purchase new .If we are going to live in a world where no one can afford to buy a lot of new consumer goods and the jobs that used to pay for that lifestyle are automated and outsourced we better find ways to pay people to fix things again and stay out of debt
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compig

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 06:59:29 PM »
Redistribution of wealth is never going to happen , the global economy has always favoured the wealthy and realistically I don't see it changing.

Consumerism is the new religion and combined with the advent of rapidly changing technology it is a potent addiction. The world of repair , refurbishment and keeping a product for life is over , lamentable but true. Admittedly people are brainwashed into this mentality but it's here to stay. Not that I will support it where at all possible. We are a dying breed.
People now accept a life of debt like it's a virtue , but they don't know anything else.  They expect obsolescence and are happily provided with it. Problem is they don't see the consequences until it's too late.
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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2009, 07:39:44 PM »
I think you fail to see the big picture.

The automated factory is here and if the people who used to make things don't start to fix things there will be massive unending unemployement.

Where I work there used to be 22,000 men, now we are 3200 and in the next decade that will likely shrink by another third. There is coming a tipping point where we can simply not consume enough to keep everything going and not all of us will be able to aford the cost of being a stock holder or even making enough money off the meager dividends to make ends meet.

Last rescession was a jobless one if you factor in the number of people who moved on to construction ( debt fueled growth ) and service industries ( would you like an apple pie with that? ). Therefore we must change taxation to suport small buisness and practical living not debt fueled hyper consumerism.

Global warming be dambed I hope the Brazilian rain forest turns into a savana and I can grow peach trees in my yard. The real problems we face are over populations, technological displacement, over production and scarce/limited resources resources. God help us all if the Chinese and Indians develop the way we have.
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compig

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Re: Global warming ?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 08:04:41 PM »
I agree the planet is overpopulated , that is the main problem. The Chinese made a good move when they limited families to 1 child.
The developing countries are a time bomb about to detonate , there are some unpleasant consequences on the horizon.
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