Author Topic: Bl**dy copper!  (Read 22387 times)

AdeV73

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Bl**dy copper!
« on: August 24, 2009, 11:39:21 PM »
I've only been soldering copper pipes for about 1/2 day, and already I'm hacked off with the whole idea. Whoever invented soldering as a means of joining copper pipes together needs shooting!

Now I have to disassemble my cooling system to tackle 4 leaks, three drippers and one gusher. Bl**dy solder. Bl**dy copper. I may try that copper glue instead.

compig

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 11:59:09 PM »
Soldering is sooooo easy !! No , really , it is !! Most important thing is the parts must be bright clean. Then you need flux. Do not overheat the joint and tin the parts before joining then just wet the joint with solder , job done. 
Easy for me to spout off though , I can solder for England but can I TIG weld Aluminium ??!! Noooo !!  Carbon steel , stainless steel , any thing but Ali !!
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Wizard

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 12:26:51 AM »
Agree on copper, bronze, and such.  Easy as PIE.

Key to success:   BRIGHT shiny by scrubbing with emery paper or like,  dermel have a fluff ball of this soft material useful for speedy preparation or acid etched if too oxidized and in hard to access and NO grease, water and any residues this means washing, or degreasing.  That means very clean.

Flux flux and flux.  Use rosin flux paste & brush.  Not acid-based type.  This will be messy, but no big deal on clean up after.

Thou Shalt NOT overheat, ever.   This oops "burns off" flux prematurely and rendering the preparation effort wasted and start over again.  Heat carefully and control the heat by withdrawing or "fan" the work with tip of flame back and forth if it get hotter too quickly and solder not spreading in well or "tacky" (not enough flux or heated object not hot enough while you are "burning" other spot by accident.  Keep waving the flames over larger area to get larger area come up to solder melting point while you are tapping the spot with solder wire till it suckles on the solder into joint, then move on to another spot till job is complete in one go.  Wait for it to cool.  Don't fuss with the repair, let solder solidify.

I've been doing the electronic solderings and some big soldering jobs for most of my life.

Cheers, Wizard

Doug

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 12:27:47 AM »
Its all practice and proceedure.

Keep at it
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Wizard

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 12:35:16 AM »
Last winter, I reconditioned the ND alternator (slip rings were badly worn),  Grabbed thickest copper water pipe adapters inner small enough to not fit on the slip rings.  Filed down the old slip rings till sectioned off to width tubings fits on from that pipe adapter with dermel on homemade fixture while I hand-spin the alternator.  Soldered them on.

Then carefully ground them with same setup by hand. Got them to .001 out of round accuracy.  Time will tell once I finally install this 90A ND alternator in my 2.2L caravan once I have chance to remove the fuel pump guard and cut part of it to clear ND's rear bell.

Cheers, Wizard

Irish Artist

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 12:55:47 AM »
My entire house is plumbed in copper, including the drain pipes and my hydronic heating system. The biggest problem I've run into is getting all the water out the lines as it will suck up the heat of your touch. I'll tell you what though, once it's done it's done for good! No leaks, no clogs and no buildup inside the plumbing.

Your right Doug, practice, practice and more. . . .
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dieseldave

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 02:44:15 AM »

  One thing I will say is that I don't really like the 95/5 solder. It just does not flow nice! I prefer the old 50/50 stuff,50% tin and 50% lead. It flows nice with not an awfull amount of heat.

  I think 95/5 is 95% tin and 5% copper, A higher melting point

Bagpiper

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 04:40:09 AM »
I've only been soldering copper pipes for about 1/2 day,

I reckon I've been running solder since I was about 4 or 5 years old (I am 60 now). Back then we used a kerosene fired torch and big heavy soldering irons (coppers). My pappy was a sheet metal mechanic and I was his helper before I could walk.

The trick is to have it clean, flux it, and heat the part you want the solder to flow INTO. Solder draws towards heat. If you point your heat at the solder source only, all you will do is end up with a glob of melted solder with no place to run to.

Practice practice practice.
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adhall

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 04:44:41 AM »
Some advice based on personal experience: Don't use steel wool to clean the copper prior to soldering. It turns out that steel wool has oil in it...

Best regards,
Andy Hall
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AdeV73

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 07:26:07 AM »
Cheers folks - the common theme behind all of my leaky joints (bar one) is overheating I think; and, of course, once you've let it all cool down and figured out it leaks, it's too late to do anything about it  >:(  Today, I will mostly be breaking it down again & re-soldering the dodginess...

I've been doing electronic soldering for years, don't have any problem with that at all, except that I trod on my iron a while back & haven't got around to replacing it yet... but with the electronic stuff I use leaded solder (I stockpiled  ;D), wheras all my plumbing so far has been with lead-free & water-soluble flux. I do have some ancient Rosin flux, but I'm not sure that'd work well with lead-free solder?

compig

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 10:04:56 AM »
Is solder with lead content now impossible to obtain ?
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oliver90owner

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 10:07:23 AM »
One thing nobody mentioned.  Heat the pipe, not the connector, especially if it a presoldered fitting.

A bit like soldering in transistors - heat the transistor leg and the transistor will be fried long before enough heat gets to the circuit board copper to raise it to soldering temperature

When you are competent, and confident, it will be easy and (almost) always leak-proof for ever.

Regards, RAB

AdeV73

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 10:42:47 AM »
One thing nobody mentioned.  Heat the pipe, not the connector, especially if it a presoldered fitting.

A bit like soldering in transistors - heat the transistor leg and the transistor will be fried long before enough heat gets to the circuit board copper to raise it to soldering temperature

When you are competent, and confident, it will be easy and (almost) always leak-proof for ever.


Interesting -  I was doing the exact opposite: Heat the fitting with the solder resting on the pipe; so when it flowed it meant the pipe itself was hot enough to melt the solder...

Edit: And why do the Americans insist on calling it "sahder"??? It's "solder" like "sole duuuuhhhh"! ;)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 10:50:41 AM by AdeV »

compig

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 10:59:16 AM »
Some advice based on personal experience: Don't use steel wool to clean the copper prior to soldering. It turns out that steel wool has oil in it...

Best regards,
Andy Hall

I have used wire wool without problems but now I use Scotchbrite.



Edit: And why do the Americans insist on calling it "sahder"??? It's "solder" like "sole duuuuhhhh"! ;)

Thats no worse than some colloquialisms used in various dialects in the UK though.
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M61hops

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Re: Bl**dy copper!
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 11:04:19 AM »
I've had some lead free solders that just would not flow no way no how  :'( !!!  Try some first on a joint on your workbench to make sure you've got good solder and flux!  The last solder I bought flowed just fine, like the good old days with 50/50  :) .  I don't know the brand but I got both the solder and flux at an Ace Hardware and I think it was the house brands.  Crappy solder that won't flow into the joints makes for a lot of frustration and can ruin your day for sure!  Since I don't hardly ever buy solder I don't know if it is hard to find lead free solder that flows well, maybe they have the formulas perfected now or I was just unlucky a couple of times when I got the stuff that wasn't useable because it wouldn't flow.  For a cooling system you could use solder with lead in it if it's possible to find it nowadays?  As has been mentioned, once you've got water in the leaking joint it's hard to fix.  I've had to go to a lot of trouble to drain pipes and take fittings back apart so I could get crap out and flux in to stop a leak  >:( !  I would do that rather than rely on glue though.  Good luck!                           Leland
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