Government health care

[LowGear]

Hey,

I think I’m wrong about Medicare being for those over 65.  I think it's for all Social Security benefit receivers.

Casey

[SHIPCHIEF]

Casey;
That was nice. I usually think of you as sniping at us red necks.
I have an Irish American liberal friend. He retired and moved away. We used to have such a good time arguing. The thing is, he was smart and could articulate his liberal politics and then explain how that fit with his conservative family mores.
I think excessive liberalism that makes life more humane for the living, is not the best thing for the culture or eventually humanity.
It's not exactly eugenics, what it is: natural selection.
Pretty cold huh? But I think the outcome is more humane in the end. Children don't like that polio shot either.
That's why I don't want to saddle our kids with expensive care for the baby boomers. I do want care for us, but I want a smarter way that costs less and gives better choices, which is usually created in free markets. More powerful govenment monopoly means slowing in technological advancement, and the end of creative ways to get more work out of deminishing money. The cost keeps going up and the quality of service goes down as public employees get entrenched and start negociating for higher pay with less work. Care for the client becomes secondary to career advancement and working conditions, because competition has been removed.

[SHIPCHIEF]

Just to sit the other side of the fence for a half second, unregulated free market medical monopolies or price cartells are also reprehensible. 

[mobile_bob]

interestingly just about everything associated with health care has signed on with obama's plan whatever it is to be

also those so called obscene profit margins

for profit hospitals average 3.4% net profits
health insurance companies average 3.5%

i don't remember all the rest of the numbers, but none were over 5% net profit

and we are to believe that the government is going to squeeze the fat out of the system?

hard as it is to get blood out of a turnip, that 3.5% profit margin ain't gonna pay for much beauracracy
much less any more insured souls.

who knows how this is going to all come down, all we can do is make sure our voices are heard, donate accordingly
and vote our concience.

i am seriously thinking of donating to some races out of my district and state, put the money to work unseating some
of these jokers that seem to place themselves above the rest of us.

arlen spector comes to mind, along with harry reid and barbara boxer

all we need to do is unseat some of the shakey ones, just one or two in the senate would surely change the complexion
of the debate.

bob g

[LowGear]

Profit margins are an interesting way to evaluate companies.  The nickle and dime programs I do the challenge is to find legitimate write offs so I don’t break out of the 15% tax bracket.  I wish I could consider multimillion dollar salaries and corporate jets for this purpose.  A business school story:

A corporation advertises for a new accountant.
Three people apply.
Each one is given the same set of papers and asked “How much did we make and how much do we owe in taxes?
The first candidate reported 2.3 million profit and 1.2 million in taxes.
The second candidate reported 1.2 million profit and 2.3 million in taxes.
The third candidate asked “What numbers do you want?”
Which one was offered the position?  I think we all know that answer.

I prefer to judge my profit by my life style.  I’d like to have a private jet and off shore bank accounts but I still do consider myself lucky.  Now that I have Medicare I feel even luckier.

Casey

[Irish Artist]

A subject that has not been brought up here and I believe is one of the main contributors to sky rocketing health care costs is liability insurance for doctors, hospitals and HMO's.

I've had some dealings with a doctor who informed me that even though she has never been sued or had a complaint from any of her patents, her insurance costs have tripled in the last 10 years or so. I can't remember the exact number but I believe it was more than 75 thou. a year she had to fork out for her private practice. With all of the rest of her overhead, she was barely making a profit. So, she spent her spare time investing in real estate.

I do think we all need to be held responsible for our actions, and if a doctor makes a mistake in the operating room, there should be some sort of repercussions. But the frivolous lawsuits and the over the top financial rewards on some cases are driving allot of doctors out of the business and in turn increasing the cost of health care.

What is the solution, I'm not sure, but we could start by being a bit more realistic about the rewards on some of these cases.

I spent 10 days in the hospital for a collapsed lung, during my stay there were a few mistakes made a couple of which were rather serious, one in fact forced me to stay in the hospital for a couple of days longer than should have been required. It was somewhat amusing when a hospital admin. came to discuss the event with me, I could see a bit of fear on her face. There was NO admission of wrong doing but she wanted to be sure that I was doing ok, and they needed to document the incident to be sure that it didn't happen again. I told her, look, just don't charge me for any additional expenses caused by this and I'll be fine with that. They didn't charge me for the care I received for the last couple of days, and they actually discounted my final bill by a fair percentage.

I was just grateful to be alive and to have some of the best health care services in the world at my disposal.

If we were all just a bit more reasonable about these sort of things it'd be a much better world.

Murph'

[apogee_man]

I agreen completely with Murph.

A surgeon that I know pays over $100K/yr for his medical insurance.

He too mentioned that he needs to charge a fair amount just to keep the lights on and isn't making much $$$.

What I do know is this - the insurance industry is the richest in the world.

I"m not buying that they only make 3.5% on health insurance.  If that was the case, I can assure you that they'd stop writing health policies altogether as it wouldn't be worth their time.

Steve

[SHIPCHIEF]

The whole concept of insurance bugs me;
Putting money up. Betting against yourself.
Life insurance is putting your money up front betting you will die early. When you win, you lost. 

[LowGear]

Cost Plus Rules!

The greater the settlements are the greater the premiums.  Don't you get it?  If I got paid on the amount of money I was paying out you can bet my payouts would grow at a rate close to the raise in our medical costs. 

You do know that insurance companies pay about 1/2 the fees for services that you or I would pay with our check or credit card?  That bill you receive from the hospital shows you what you, the chump, would pay but they never show you what their coconspirators actually do pay.  (I put the “coconspirators” in there for my brothers and sisters that want to wander off from topic.)

Good News – Bad News.  For the upper half of the population we do have really good critical medical care but those cursed poor keep dragging us down from Number One in medical practice outcomes like life expectancy and infant mortality.  I know I've brought these points up before and we've all read the sampling and mathematical reasons our data doesn't look as good.  Do you really believe this is a sampling error?  Or could it just be the reality of how truly important money is in our best in the world society?

[apogee_man]

Low,

I would contend that it has very little to do with sampling errors.

I would contend that the numbers are accurate and the distribution between the rich and poor is uniform (don't know that for a fact).

The huge piece of the puzzle that is missing is wellness medicine. 

Until the population is weaned from the concept that cures only come from pharmaceutical bottles, and serious diet and lifestyle changes are made, the system will continue its downward spiral because the medical system is reactionary instead of proactive.

The insurance companies, and the US population in general, are only just beginning to get it.  I find it incomprehensible that western medicine, with it's 80 whole years of knowledge base, completely disregards 2000 years of medical info that Chinese, European and Indian medicine is based on.  Our doctors aren't even taught about it!

We are the best in the world at critical care.  We are also the worst in the world at wellness medicine. 

Perhaps the lack of focus on wellness really comes down to the almighty dollar.  Doctors, hospitals, drug companies and even insurance companies don't make money if you are well and stay well.  (why would we need anythng except catastrophic insurance if we never were sick?)

Steve

[ZackaryMac]

Greed - it's a dirty disease!

[apogee_man]

Thought this was an interesting, brief synopsis of what they're trying to accomplish.

Worth the read imho.

Hopefully, everyone realizes that the insurance companies are funding a massive misinformation campaign as this would be a major game-changer for them.


8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage

Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.

Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.

Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.

Learn more and get details: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/health-insurance-consumer-protections/

8 common myths about health insurance reform

Reform will stop "rationing" - not increase it: It’s a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.

We can’t afford reform: It's the status quo we can't afford. It’s a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.

Reform would encourage "euthanasia": It does not. It’s a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.

Vets' health care is safe and sound: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.

Reform will benefit small business - not burden it: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.

Your Medicare is safe, and stronger with reform: It’s myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.

You can keep your own insurance: It’s myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.

No, government will not do anything with your bank account: It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts.  Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose.  Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you – and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.

Learn more and get details:

http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck
http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck/faq

8 Reasons We Need Health Insurance Reform Now

Coverage Denied to Millions: A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years or dropped from coverage when they became seriously ill. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/denied_coverage/index.html

Less Care for More Costs: With each passing year, Americans are paying more for health care coverage. Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have nearly doubled since 2000, a rate three times faster than wages. In 2008, the average premium for a family plan purchased through an employer was $12,680, nearly the annual earnings of a full-time minimum wage job.  Americans pay more than ever for health insurance, but get less coverage. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hiddencosts/index.html

Roadblocks to Care for Women: Women’s reproductive health requires more regular contact with health care providers, including yearly pap smears, mammograms, and obstetric care. Women are also more likely to report fair or poor health than men (9.5% versus 9.0%). While rates of chronic conditions such as diabetes and high blood pressure are similar to men, women are twice as likely to suffer from headaches and are more likely to experience joint, back or neck pain. These chronic conditions often require regular and frequent treatment and follow-up care. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/women/index.html

Hard Times in the Heartland: Throughout rural America, there are nearly 50 million people who face challenges in accessing health care. The past several decades have consistently shown higher rates of poverty, mortality, uninsurance, and limited access to a primary health care provider in rural areas. With the recent economic downturn, there is potential for an increase in many of the health disparities and access concerns that are already elevated in rural communities. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hardtimes

Small Businesses Struggle to Provide Health Coverage: Nearly one-third of the uninsured – 13 million people – are employees of firms with less than 100 workers. From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. Much of this decline stems from small business. The percentage of small businesses offering coverage dropped from 68% to 59%, while large firms held stable at 99%. About a third of such workers in firms with fewer than 50 employees obtain insurance through a spouse. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/helpbottomline

The Tragedies are Personal: Half of all personal bankruptcies are at least partly the result of medical expenses. The typical elderly couple may have to save nearly $300,000 to pay for health costs not covered by Medicare alone. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction

Diminishing Access to Care: From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. An estimated 87 million people - one in every three Americans under the age of 65 - were uninsured at some point in 2007 and 2008. More than 80% of the uninsured are in working families. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction/diminishing/index.html

The Trends are Troubling: Without reform, health care costs will continue to skyrocket unabated, putting unbearable strain on families, businesses, and state and federal government budgets. Perhaps the most visible sign of the need for health care reform is the 46 million Americans currently without health insurance - projections suggest that this number will rise to about 72 million in 2040 in the absence of reform. Learn more: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/assets/documents/CEA_Health_Care_Report.pdf
    

[MikeyT]

What I do know is this - the insurance industry is the richest in the world.

Steve

Last year it was the oil industry, next year it will be some other. These big bad industries employee lots of people, make up a large part of the economy, and when they profit, so do I and many millions of others, since they also are a large part of the larger part of most folks 401Ks and other savings vehicles, at least those among us that are "lucky" enough to have any savings anymore (how a social liberal can twist the fact that I am frugal therefore have savings into "luck" is beyond me!). So, the fed drives them out of buisness, industry by industry, for one reason or another, our individual wealth slowly disapated by this attrition, deliberate inflation, and the inevitable additional taxation, and soon we will ALL be serfs again. The pigs do indead wear clothes!

[SHIPCHIEF]

I don't know you guys, but I assume most of you have hired a lawyer. I did when I got divorced.
I truely needed the service, and they (both a woman, then later a man) were very good, professional and ethical. I had to pay them later as I could afford it.
I think we should all have national legal care.
No, I'm just kidding. But sometimes I think we SHOULDN'T have health insurance. Too much regulation, taxation and insurance drive up costs. I wonder what it would be like if we went the other way, and de-regulated instead of went for national insurance?
How about making it against the law to tax medical care. In Washington State sales tax is not collected on food. Kinda like that.
Tax Free Medical. De-regulated. Cash and carry, Take Payments? Can I fix your car in trade? Will you take a chicken? 

[Irish Artist]

Thank you for the report from the white house, however, as there are a number of versions of the health insurance reform in the works, we won't know the final wording until the sh!t hits the wall. The White house at this point is poopin' out what makes them look good, I know a good marketing program in swing when I see one.

Mind you, there is a small part of me that hopes that something good will come of all this, if the process works well and we all have our say and the really important issues are addressed and the stepping on citizen's toes is kept to the very minimum, then we all might walk away from it with some sense of, well that wasn't so bad.

These are trying times, I'm reading and seeing soooo much crap being spooned out by all sides, everyone is out to make the "others" sound like the bad guys and make themselves out to be the heros! What a bunch of B.S. There is some truth in there and some good intentions, but all the knee-jerk reactions just stir the pot of resistance to finding common ground.

I used to call myself a conservative, now after all the B.S that I've witnessed from the conservative movement, as it has tried to regain a foot hold, I call myself an independent. Scare tactics and lies might win over the followers, but if you're paying attention to the big picture, you see it all. I'm not going to let the lib's off the hook either, they're playing the same flipping game, it just makes me sad, I see so much potential in our society, yet we continue to B.S. each other to try to get ahead.

I keep hoping that we'll learn from our mistakes.

Murph'