Author Topic: Government health care  (Read 53337 times)

mobile_bob

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2009, 07:20:16 AM »
Bioboy:

"have you ever done any social work?"

interesting question hmmm let me think a bit on that one

well during the vietnam war, i worked every Saturday using a hand powered hole punch, punching holes in ammo belts
until my hands were blistered and bleeding,, i did that for about 3 months and was never paid for my effort,,, i figured at
the time it was my patriotic duty to proudly do so.

i used to sit for 3 old folks on saturday afternoons while their caregiver took the afternoon off to go shopping and just get away
i never expected or was paid for my time doing that either.

spent many very hot and dirty hours mowing the parish cemetary, ok i was paid to do that so i guess that doesn't count.
but then again it was all of about 50 cents and hour, all the while wearing a milwakee back brace that cut into my sides above my pelvis
which scars are still with me today.

did a bit as an assistant scout master, that paid very well  :)

campaigned for a democrat that ran for the senate in '72 (ok he had a drop dead gorgeous daughter, so shoot me)

see the thing is, most of us in the real world come from working families, and as such don't have the luxury of daddy's money so
we can go out and do social work, we have to work in order to feed and house ourselves.

your right on one point though,, i place a man that puts in a solid days work far ahead of some pos that plays tennis, spends daddy's money and dabbles in politics with the idea that he knows better than me how i should live my life.

community organizer is not a job period, it is something far different
a community social worker that works to help at risk youth is working and doing a job, and i commend then for that.
a community organizer does what?  he stirs up the masses to do what the guy that is paying him wants done.
no different than a mafia loan shark, pimp  or other thug in my opinion. he hones his gift of gab, his line of bullshit, and practices
the art of deception, not wholey unlike another bibilical character some liberals are all to proud to worship. (hint: he is red, has horns,
and a pitchfork)  :)

i don't know what your story is bioboy, but here you come with all of your 5 posts thinking you will stir the pot and piss off
me or others with your liberal crappola,, buddy you are a rank amateur to say the least.

perhaps you can offer something of substance to the forum now that you have made it clear you are an obamanite, no
problem,,, most of us won't hold that against you.

can't speak for everyone though!

:)

bob g

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apogee_man

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2009, 07:39:49 AM »
"i worked every Saturday using a hand powered hole punch, punching holes..."

DANGIT Bob,

I KNEW you were the one behind the hanging chad fiasco....

Steve  ;)

BioBoy

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2009, 08:57:51 AM »
So many issues and not a social worker in the theater.  Now if someone had great medical insurance perhaps we could get one until the policy was cancelled - you see megalomaniacs don't like mental health.  And then there's the prior or existing condition clause as well.  You know what they say, "If the right cross doesn't get you then the left one will."  Oh darn, have I mixed my metaphors again?

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2009, 09:02:56 AM »
As an honorary smurf I'll have to admit the YouTube video was just too deep for me.  What did I miss that would give it meaning?

mkdutchman

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2009, 01:09:28 PM »
Dear Mobil Bob,

We all know you labor daily to provide for the welfare of the world.  We all know that liberals have given nothing for your benefit and are free riders of society.  How do you make time to poop out these contributions to LEF?

I’m not totally down with everything about most members of my list of liberals.  What they had in common was a liberal philosophy and lifestyle for their times.  Remember, the peers of Jesus so hated him that they gave him capital punishment.  I’m sure your right wing whacko needs can appreciate the death penalty.

If you think living in a dominantly Asian community and being black is a free ride then please step away from the mirror and look at other people’s challenges.  (Hawaii is only 30% white or black not to forget Indonesia’s race distribution.)  Obama is either incredibly (in the full meaning of the word) lucky or he’s damn good.  Oh, he did get the free ride that comes with being deserted by your father at birth and your mother before adolescence.  Some guys just got it so much easier than you or I.

Back on task:  Medicare management costs = ~3%.  Private Insurance management costs = ~19%.  Gosh Bless you “pay more - get less” fundamentalists.  All important tasks in the United States are delegated to a socialist form of economic structure.

I’ve got the violins ready!  Please respond.

Burns


Lowgear, Bioboy, whatever you're calling yourself,

What's wrong with you that you disappear and then come back under a different handle? If you're not Casey/Lowgear who I was going around in circles with on another thread (also concerning politics) then your posting style must be his twin brother.

Andrew,
is it possible to see if this is actually so?

(If it is in fact not so I will gladly retract the charge)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 01:12:46 PM by mkdutchman »

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2009, 01:22:22 PM »
Sorry to open up a sore subject, but I wanted a glimpse into the future.
Another question for the Brits---a long time ago I was listening to a tape by Dr. Francis Schaefer (recorded about 1973) and he was talking about an organization in Britain called "EXIT"---it was designed to teach old folks to commit suicide. Is this true? If it is, it sounds a bit like eol care (denial of care) in the obama plan.

Tommy



Yes , exit did and does exist.However , its still illegal to take ones own life or to assist someone to take their own life in the UK. There are organisations in other countries where it is legal though , Switzerland for one I think. There have been a number of attempts here to obtain a legal right to end a life or have someone assist in doing so , non have been successful that I know of. The NHS is doing a pretty good job though !!  If I had an inclination towards conspiracy theories I would almost think it was an alternative agenda by the government to cull some of the old, weak , less able from society and save a few bucks !!
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panaceabeachbum

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2009, 03:12:23 PM »



Lowgear, Bioboy, whatever you're calling yourself,

What's wrong with you that you disappear and then come back under a different handle? If you're not Casey/Lowgear who I was going around in circles with on another thread (also concerning politics) then your posting style must be his twin brother.


I thought the exact same thing..

looking at BioBoys rant about facist I have to wonder , if its so bad here then why do you stay in the US . If lifes sogreat under the thumb of big goverment in other countries why dont you pack up and move.

As far as your comment that T Jefferson and George Washington were liberals in their days , I think you have a very twisted view (thanks to lib public education) of what those men thought , believed and fought for. Core to thier beliefs were LESS goverment intrusion in our lives and SMALLER goverment. Read what they wrote , not the opinion of your proffesor .


You libs rail on about "the man" and "big goverment" yet your leaders do everything possible to increase the size of goverment and impose more control over the masses than any other party in history , you need to pull your head out of your ass and realize you Obama worshipers are the sheep. You clowns cant form an unscripted honest thought of your own , you need a "community organizer" or "czar' to tell you what to think , maybe sheep is to mild how about lemming.



I stil have to wonder , why in the hell do we the taxpayers have to pay for the health care of everyone in the country , humans have been on this planet a long time with no socialized health care and as a whole we hae gotten along just fine . I am just amazed with this thought process over the past 20-25 years that we the tax payers need to provide for those that cant provide for themselves . We have turned into a nanny state . 
Quote

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2009, 05:17:20 PM »
Every now-and-then it's a good idea to look at the plans from the 'other side'. Sometimes they see the same problems you do, and also realize something must be done.
The problem is that they use different 'buzz words' to describe the situation than you use, and they see the problem differently. That makes problems trying to debate them, It's not an Apples to apples debate, we can't hear each other, let alone understand, the defenitions and measures are not the same. Nor the final goals.
With such a disparate set of goals, is it any wonder the Town Hall meetings break down?
In a natural world, those that don't do as well - Don't do as well. Not good at getting up for work? Might not eat as well or be able to pay for health care. Watching my two step-sons, it's plain as the nose on your face. One works hard, plans ahead, is married and has beutiful kids. The other has spotty enployment, been to jail a couple of times from scoflawing minor traffic and parking offences, and spends everything he earns as soon as he gets it.  He won't buy health insurance. Why would he?
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panaceabeachbum

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2009, 07:39:42 PM »
The other has spotty enployment, been to jail a couple of times from scoflawing minor traffic and parking offences, and spends everything he earns as soon as he gets it.  He won't buy health insurance. Why would he?

and why should we?

If he doesnt want to buy insurance then good for him, thats a choice only he can make

I personaly dont see a problem with personal freedom and the ablity to make my own decisions , by the same token I dont expect my decisions wether sound or not to burden anyone else.  its called personal responsibility , something that seems to be lost in modern litigation driven society.

You wanna smoke? not my problem, you choose to visit a "service provider" and end up with HIV? not my problem ..... but the GOV wants to make these poor decisions everyones problem by giving insurance coverage to everyone  .

 So lets say we open the door to taking care of everyone regardless of the stupid decisions they make in their personal life then where will it end?  Its a very short walk to the point were the GOV will begin to limit these "risky" decisions "for the good of the collective" well in the above mentioned cases that is fine in my opinion but then there will be no end . Pretty soon they will decide jumping out of airplanes is to risky , then it will be riding motorcycles , shooting, hunting , riding a bycycle , operating a car , walking accross your living room, swimming etc etc    at some point there will be so much control over the things you can and cannot do that it will become hard to do anything fun

« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 07:41:46 PM by panaceabeachbum »

LowGear

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2009, 07:46:56 PM »
Yo mkdutchman and panaceabeachbum,

You’re right.  Mike and I are brothers.  We're both on Social Security and it does make the difference.  We're both on Medicare and it saves our bacon.  These two programs allowed our mother to stay at home until she died.  We are biased.

Any program or system you look at has problems.  Eden, Adam and Eves’ garden, couldn’t have lasted too long or Abel would have been born there.  Any program or system you look at has great points.  Many are still seeking Eden.  I forget who pointed this out to me but I’m sure she was some liberal secular intellectualist jerk who only has blisters from cashing her trust fund checks.  Is it less valid?

This website is great.  Really good and usually reliable information on small diesel engines and generators posted by many people that really know what they’re talking about and graciously share.  Like Mike’s visit to a neighbor’s bio-diesel set-up.  And then there are the sections that are devoted to opinions.  Some folks think that name calling and labeling are a valid part of opinion exchange.  As far as I’m concerned that just turns the thread into a “Yo mama’s so ugly……” comic relief moment.  I think most of us are very good about keeping our opinions in the opinions’ section and out of the technical sections which drive this website and make it the great place we really come here for.  An up-side to the opinion sections is that it should teach us that in spite of our common high regard for small diesel engines we do disagree about less important things like religion, politics and, in this case, a state sponsored healthcare insurance program.

For those of you that have not completed a four year college degree program, like my brother, the power and influence of the “professors” diminishes with each class whether it be “Business, Government and Society 444” or “Golf 101” (I took it Pass/Fail).  But you’re correct about that first year or two before a student learns that instructors are no less full of crap than any other class of wage earners

Back on Topic:  So I listen to Dave Ross talk radio on the internet.  A senator was just being interviewed and maintained that the reason that congress shouldn’t have to live with this new proposed health insurance program is because everyone will have the right to keep their existing insurance.  What a chicken liver cop-out!

Now!  If you are offended we both, Mike and Casey, post to this site – I’m sorry.  I apologize.  But it will happen again.  Oh.  What’s your real name(s)?  What’s your real email address?  And we all know Mobil_Bob is perfectly capable of taking care of himself in about any situation life throws at him.  That's why we read what he has to say whether we agree or not.

Casey
« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 07:51:34 PM by LowGear »
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abbamovers

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2009, 09:27:42 PM »

 ..... but the GOV wants to make these poor decisions everyones problem by giving insurance coverage to everyone  .

 So lets say we open the door to taking care of everyone regardless of the stupid decisions they make in their personal life then where will it end?  Its a very short walk to the point were the GOV will begin to limit these "risky" decisions "for the good of the collective" well in the above mentioned cases that is fine in my opinion but then there will be no end . Pretty soon they will decide jumping out of airplanes is to risky , then it will be riding motorcycles , shooting, hunting , riding a bycycle , operating a car , walking accross your living room, swimming etc etc    at some point there will be so much control over the things you can and cannot do that it will become hard to do anything fun



As a Canuk I'd like to ask a few questions to our Southern brothers.
As far as I knew I thought that roughly 50 % of your population's health care as it stands now WAS FREE.
I mean, you have Medicaid for the old folks, Medicare for the poor folks, full coverage for the Military includes current and vets for life ( I have US vet relatives who confirm this ), and you have coverage for the Natives on the reserves.( and off too ???) ????
Correct me if I am wrong.
Canada's system as it stands now doesn't cover everything.
We have to pay for our meds (unless we have extra insurance coverage bought out of our own pockets like Bluecross ), pay for private beds, pay for home care , pay for our dental and a whole list of other stuff.
Our system ain't perfect by a long shot.
But how is it that even though our we pay for our own meds they are still vastly cheaper for the same thing than buying from USA.?
Our Pharmacorps & yours still make a decent buck from selling to us and we don't seem to be gouged , only in other ways ( higher consumption, personal, corp taxes ).

One thing does remain a constant through both our ways of life/systems, the middle class is always paying the freight thru the arse for the lower and upper classes.

Perhaps  your current administration does have an agenda of more gov't meddling in your lives.
You elected them,  so toss the bums out next time, start a revolt.
Get back to that Republic that your forefathers cherished before you fall like ancient Rome.( I know, easy to say hard to do )
I only wish you could make a Pax Americana and take Canada along for the ride & combine the 2 of our countries, what a glorious superpower we could be.( shhh, don't tell the Mexicans, it would spoil everything)  ;)
Thats what I love about America, anything is possible.( isn't that why the Hydrogen bomb was invented ? )  :P

« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 09:52:27 PM by abbamovers »

apogee_man

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2009, 12:36:02 AM »
Panacea,

"You wanna smoke? not my problem, you choose to visit a "service provider" and end up with HIV? not my problem ..... but the GOV wants to make these poor decisions everyones problem by giving insurance coverage to everyone."

Unfortunately, your logic is fatally flawed.

You are not an island no matter how responsible you are.

Here's why:

Taking your above hypothetical statement at face value, let's assume you choose to smoke and visit service providers on a regular basis.

Now, let's also assume that you also choose to carry health insurance and it happens to be by the same company that also supplies mine.

Is it right that my rates will be higher because you choose the lifestyle that you do, because statistically, you or others like you, will be far more expensive to take care of?

My point is, we are ALREADY paying to support our neighbors, either through higher insurance rates or by tax dollars (when they visit the ER with no insurance).  As it stands now, the costs are higher because there is no preventative or wellness medicine in the equation.

I would submit that it's far cheaper to add oil to the car's engine, rather than to wait for it to run out and rebuild the engine later.

Steve
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 01:00:20 AM by apogee_man »

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2009, 12:59:38 AM »
Interesting observation about how much 'free' medical the US already has.
I'm somewhat alarmed by the notion of a single payer system, more upset when the doctors become federal employees.
But the naked grab for power that is comming out of the 1017 page House Bill is raising the hackles on my red neck.
Medical commisioners that are above review by the judicial system? Free access to the patients medical and financial records? Including disemination to foreign entities? What's that about?
Re-writing the IRS code to take money from 'opt outers'? Fines, fees, review commisions to find regions that don't have high enough federal enrollment rates and instructions on how to increase it?
A public option that is to compete with private insurers, and the rules are already set up to cheat on behalf of the Gov't plan?
What politicians are saying about health care reform does not match the one bill we can read, the house bill. Senators disengenuously tell us that's not in the bill they are working on...well there are 4 senate bills now. But whatever they pass has to go to reconciliation with the House version, and that's done behind closed doors.
The funny thing is that this is politics-as-usual. Just now we care more about it because it is such a big deal, and in the computer age, we can communicate with each other so fast that the politician can't obscure what 'buisness-as-usual' really means as well as they used to. We (grass roots man-in-the-street) can report our little contribution, and when they are added together the bigger picture becomes clear.
Steve, good anlogy on the adding oil.
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Doug

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2009, 02:59:28 AM »
As an honorary smurf I'll have to admit the YouTube video was just too deep for me.  What did I miss that would give it meaning?

You like that eh?
I laugh everytime I see that.

I don't think many people "Get It" however at least not on this side of the pond
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LowGear

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2009, 03:27:36 AM »
Dear abbamovers,

You're close.  Medicare is for anyone 65 and older.  In fact I think I was automatically enrolled.  There is a small fee taken from wages or collected at tax time for the self employed.  A few dollars are taken from my medicare transfer now as well.  It is wonderful.  I now get my HMO for "free" that I was paying $250 a month for a year ago.  My co-pays will be higher because I elected to NOT purchase supplemental insurance.  I go to the doctor, I like her and feel she is completely competent, about twice a year.  It used to cost me $15 and now I think it’ll be about $45.  I can switch my plan once a year as I understand it.  But it's saving me close to $3000 this year.  Medicaid is kind of similar but is for really broke people, something like less than $1500 in total assets, and there are many ways to get it before a person turns 65.  This is the one that grinds on some of my brothers and sisters.  I've been to Mexico and I don't want to live there.  I don't want the streets and neighborhoods in my country to start looking like I do.

I'm a vet, with a good conduct medal  ;D, and I suppose I could use the veterans’ insurance program but I’ve heard it’s jammed-up and I prefer to leave it for what I call real vets or people that have put at least 20 years into the service of our country.  I don’t always agree with their mission but I will always appreciate their sacrifice and service.

As for Native Americans, their health care programs have been an embarrassment to most US citizens that live with their conscience for at least 100 years.  I think there are few, very few examples of nations that have been near totally destroyed to come back in a measly 2 or 3 hundred years.  I believe this is bore out in ancient history, Biblical history and medieval European history as well.  Perhaps as a person of Irish ancestry I may be a bit over sensitive or even biased about this opinion but the healing of the soul takes a lot longer than that of the body.

I’m glad we’re starting to realize that there is more than one proposed bill out there and it will be boiled down to a single one before it gets past the senate and be reorganized and gotten through the house and, I think, back through the senate again before the President can say “Yah or Nay”.  And then there’s the Supreme Court putting in its two bits every once in a while.

The really good news is that this thread has really upgraded its contributions.

Casey
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