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Author Topic: Government health care  (Read 53339 times)

BioBoy

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2009, 06:21:52 PM »
US Socialist Organizations:

US Department of Defense.  (fascist as well - look up the definitions if you can stop working and saving the world long enough)
All public police agencies.  (fascist as well)  Try opting out.

All public fire departments.  (fascist as well)  Try opting out.

US Postal Service.  (quasi fascist as well)  Who’s better?

No wonder we’re failing.  

Please keep our multi-million dollar insurance CEOs in their private jets and off shore bank accounts.  Please keep our deluded junior capitalists believing they have control of their medical programs other than submission or cancelling their policies. 

Am I a liberal?  I have too much respect and admiration for J. Christ, T. Jefferson, B. Franklin, G. Washington, B. Obama and other ultra-liberals of their time to say anything other than a very proud YES!

BioBoy

mobile_bob

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2009, 06:57:44 PM »
thats quite a stretch putting obama in the same group as JC!

maybe you should go back and do a bit more reading about the teachings of JC

i seem to remember him having compassion, yes, for those that could not provide for themselves
the crippled, blind, mamed... but

he had no tolerance for those that just wanted a free ride.

obama has benefited from a free ride his whole life, much like all politicians,, at least 90% of them anyway

as for being proud of being a liberal???

don't even get me started down that path!

i too was once a liberal democrat,, but guess what?

i grew up!  i paid the price for voting for the peanut farmer, and rectified that in the following election

i have a certain understanding of the healthcare system, and my insurance costs are astronomical as are my wifes this year,
and i can see the attraction of having a free for all health care system, but
i am realistic enough to realize that if obama has his way, no matter how good they want it to be, it will spiral down to about
the same level of service as the US postal service, and the Dept of motor vehicles...

then we will be seeing on the news how some dr or nurse went all "medical" and used an uzi to kill dozens of patience at a clinic.

i don't know what the heck is going to happen, but hopefully i can take care of myself long enough to see
another true conservative take back control of this government from the idealistic children that have somehow duped the american
public into voting them into office.

yes i am a conservative and damned proud of it!

bob g
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BioBoy

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2009, 07:37:05 PM »
Dear Mobil Bob,

We all know you labor daily to provide for the welfare of the world.  We all know that liberals have given nothing for your benefit and are free riders of society.  How do you make time to poop out these contributions to LEF?

I’m not totally down with everything about most members of my list of liberals.  What they had in common was a liberal philosophy and lifestyle for their times.  Remember, the peers of Jesus so hated him that they gave him capital punishment.  I’m sure your right wing whacko needs can appreciate the death penalty.

If you think living in a dominantly Asian community and being black is a free ride then please step away from the mirror and look at other people’s challenges.  (Hawaii is only 30% white or black not to forget Indonesia’s race distribution.)  Obama is either incredibly (in the full meaning of the word) lucky or he’s damn good.  Oh, he did get the free ride that comes with being deserted by your father at birth and your mother before adolescence.  Some guys just got it so much easier than you or I.

Back on task:  Medicare management costs = ~3%.  Private Insurance management costs = ~19%.  Gosh Bless you “pay more - get less” fundamentalists.  All important tasks in the United States are delegated to a socialist form of economic structure.

I’ve got the violins ready!  Please respond.

Burns

BioBoy

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2009, 09:22:24 PM »
Quote
maybe you should go back and do a bit more reading about the teachings of JC
[/size]

Amen Brother Bob

Quote
he had no tolerance for those that just wanted a free ride.
[/size]

Jesus or Barack?

Quote
i grew up!  i paid the price for voting for the peanut farmer, and rectified that in the following election
[/size]

Ah Yes!  Mr. small government and spend less himself - Ronald Raygun.  Well, at least he got those pestky solar panels off the roof of the White House.  (Should it still be called the "White" house?)  Didn't he trade weapons of mass destruction for drugs?


When you find a better mail system than the USPS please let me know the name and location.  Motor Vehicles are State and/or County problems but do wear the socialisti crown.

BioBoy

AdeV73

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2009, 09:35:37 PM »
Just like your average Brit, I don't suppose the average American would recognise "small government" if it hit them in the back of the head with a rounders (or "baseball" as you insist on calling it  ;)) bat.

Just like almost every non-totalitarian government out there, the US & UK governments are both out to simply promulgate themselves. If they were McDonalds or Microsoft, we'd sue the arse off them for being an abusive monopoly.

Libertarianism is where the future lies, I think - and before anyone goes off on one, you may wish to note that libertarian is NOT the same thing as an anarchist, and nor is Libertarianism even remotely close to being Anarchy.

Doug

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2009, 10:14:09 PM »
We live in an era where the Uber rich and multy nationals can move money around with easy an you and I can not.

You and I pay taxes.

Uber rich and multies pay lobby groups.

I don't for conservative value parties because they would not apear to care fore the little guy trying to get a head.
But tax cuts wow they like that and privatize and deregulate they like that too....

The theory of Tax cuts deregualtion and trickle down ecconomics still dominates the right. Sadly all I see as the end result of that is lost spending power for the midle class as they are forced to pay more and earn less.

The left on the other hand has only ever had one kick at the can in my country in the early 90s and the worst recession of that time preety much helped them spend up huge debt and little else.

The center is interesting because it simply shifts around like a ship with no rudder and a minorty gov is much the same. Thats what we have now...

This has little to do with health care. So let me make a clear point to my US friends. YOU CAN'T GO ON with what you have now its too expensive and too many people are slipping through the cracks. Sooner or later you have to stop blowing billions on making insurance/health care companies rich.

I pay high taxes and I have to wait for elective health care like 3 months for my sinous surgery. But If I get mashed in a car or lung cancer from work the system will put me at the top of the ration list and care for me. In the end I won't loose my home or end up in never ending debt. My son was delivered by a good doctor, another one put tubes in his ears another one checks him over now and tells my wife whe worries too much about snifles and fevers.....
I will probably wait for new knees and assorted plastic joints but I don't care because the system has served the most important thing to me I will ever have to worry about. My son is healthy so is my wife and so am I and as long as I don;t mind a wait from time to time for something thats not life threatoning I never have to worry about how I am going to pay for things. And my health insurance premium ( TAX ) is a real good deal to me in that light.

The system is not perfect for sure if we paid a bit more and had a little competition is the right places the wait times would be far less and it would still cost less of our GDP than the US Free for all system.

It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

compig

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2009, 10:47:44 PM »
Conservative , Liberal , Labour , Communist , whatever , they are all the same ,ONCE , they get elected !!  Politicians are all the same breed using a different marketing technique to brain wash the majority into voting for them. UK party manifesto's are almost funny . I have never known a single party produce ANYTHING from their manifesto during their term in power.
Back to health care , the NHS was , despite an earlier comment to the contrary , fairly good. We're talking at least 25 years ago though. Now , a patient stands a good chance of coming out of hospital worse than they were admitted. Additionally , dental care is far from free , anything beyond routine check ups and basic work is very expensive. It's actually cheaper to go abroad for dental treatment and the standard is generally better. In the UK we have the privilege of being able to use other Euro countries for treatment if it cannot be obtained in the UK. Some former Eastern Block countries offer package deals for cosmetic dental treatment and a holiday at incredible prices !
Private health care is available but not all it is claimed to be. One big problem is , any illness a patient is suffering at the time of enrolling in private schemes is excluded from treatment !!  So if you are receiving unacceptable treatment form the NHS you cannot change to private health care to have that illness treated !  Also , they have a reputation for trying to duck liability to treat if they can find a get out in any way.
Whether the NHS can be fixed is a BIG question. Hopefully it can but I aint holding my breath !!
   
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Doug

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2009, 11:38:44 PM »
One thing we have not touched on is how health care has changed.
What was untreatable 20 years ago in many cases today is cronic look at aids for example.

So do we want to pay ever more for a little more quality of life?

OR dare I say ration health care more chose who lives and dies.
As long as we a dropping bombs on people in far away lands its hard to say no we don't have the money for health care but do we have the will to make the hard choices.
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

mobile_bob

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2009, 01:35:58 AM »
bioboy:

since coming of age i have been out of work exactly 5 hours after a layoff, and have been self employed and paid wages to employees
for the majority of the last 35 years.

i am still self employed, still pay my own way, insurance and all that stuff we all do to stay free. (or should i say most of us all)

would i like free health care?  or rather could i use it?
well sure i could use it, with having to live with a severe spinal problem for the last 40 years, with countless xrays, drs, specialists,
surgeons, mri's, physical therapy, low grade, then medium grade and now industrial strength pain meds, (yes now they have me
on both time release morphine and vicadin for when there is break through pain,, and yes there are days that i would swear i would
get more relief out of an M&M ,, comeon,, give me a break!!!

yes it would be nice to have the government pay for my healthcare, but... the fucking government has no money of its own!!!
for me to have the Gov. pay my health care would require me to expect other folks to pay my way!!!

what really chaps my ass is while i need help out of bed, out of my chair, hurting so fucking back that i could bite a nail in two,, i get
up and go to work day after day, and do my best to take care of myself, all the while some worthless politician who has never
worked an honest day in his life is going to tell me that i also should help pay the heath needs of some illegal alien, dope fanatic, or some
sonofabitch that claims he got whiplash in a car accident and can never work ever again for the rest of his days, doing anything!

so pardon me if i don't have any patience left for "leftwing toesock/burkenstock wearing, C#$%suckin commie/socialist/ Know it all assholes"
that think they know better how to run my life.

oh yes, i forget your herogod was a community organizer!!!  i bet he really got dirty doing that, really broke a sweat, and got some callus's
didn't he?

he is nothing more than a "product" of some vile machine, and it sickens me to see what he has planned for this country.

bob g

ps. comeon, just ask me what i really think!!
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Doug

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2009, 02:48:01 AM »
Bob if you lived here I would not resent you for using OHIP....

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tlfrantz1

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2009, 04:22:03 AM »
Sorry to open up a sore subject, but I wanted a glimpse into the future.
Another question for the Brits---a long time ago I was listening to a tape by Dr. Francis Schaefer (recorded about 1973) and he was talking about an organization in Britain called "EXIT"---it was designed to teach old folks to commit suicide. Is this true? If it is, it sounds a bit like eol care (denial of care) in the obama plan.

Tommy

PS---Chuck Norris (an actor here in the US) found in the health care bill that the gov't. will be visiting homes with small children...

http://townhall.com/columnists/ChuckNorris/2009/08/11/dirty_secret_no_1_in_obamacare
Q: What is the difference between God and Barack Obama?
A: God doesn't think He's Barack Obama.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2009, 06:09:25 AM »
I think it's good that young BIOBOY is a liberal.
And I don't care what color he is or where he gained his life experiences.
BIOBOY, you have the correct attitude of self sacrafice required in todays economic and demographic environment to assure my well being into the future. Too bad you won't have enough left to take care of any of your own dreams.  :'(

It doesn't have to be like that. But it will be with the current group in charge. They don't have enough imagination to allow a better way. The whole Health Maintenace Organization system that they micromanaged into existance is the very system they demonize.
HMO's were Ted Kennedy's baby.
The US has a very good health care system, but people that 'pay as you go' are triple charged. If there was no insurance allowed in the US, health care would be affordable, like a tire patch or a head gasket repair. But Wait! now they are selling car maintenance insurance (extended warrenties). This whole thing is going the wrong way. The reason is a financial one. The Western World has been living on debt and inflation.  1973 was a marker year when Nixon refused to honour the call on gold for debt. My basic point here is that everyone overpays for everything with borrowed money. When you have a resession (like now) and people lose jobs, the price of used products drop like a stone....and new products don't sell (like cars and new houses) because they are over priced and must be bought with borrowed money. When you are ill or have cancer, you are in a bind and willing to pay any amount (of insurance money) but the final truth is that health care stops when the money runs out.
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BioBoy

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2009, 06:24:53 AM »
Free?  Ain't nothing in this life that be free.  Well, perhaps death to the current user.

Norris is a very wealthy right winger.  He may play the sweet-heart hero but he supports very right wing people and programs.  I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when he was discussing Palin as the next vice president of the US.  Is she getting nuttier or is just me?

Bob,

Have you ever done low paying social program work?  Why do you regard sweat money to be more honorable than brain money?  How do you think most of the founding fathers of the US made their way financially?

Insurance is privatized socialism.  The reason that health care costs including medications are so expensive in the US is that insurance companies are cost plus programs.  The more they can get stuff selling for the more they can charge for the service plus their standard 20% management and marketing fees.  You see, their hands are tied.  They want to cherry pick the US public health market the same way UPS and FedEx cherry pick the mail and small package shipping market. 

Burns

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2009, 06:28:01 AM »
At the beginning of this topic, I believe Ade hit the nail square on the head. Good on ya Ade!

Let me start my saying, I'm independent, meaning I think for myself! I don't follow any party dogma.

When it comes to politics, it's always gonna be a flipping mess, how ever you skin the cat, someone is going to take issue with it and gripe!

Personally, I'd prefer that government stayed lean and kept their (OUR) employees in check, the same as private business. I've seen too many good will programs go through the process of first R&D, next lets make it happen! Then it turns into a fat bellied department of government that wastes our tax dollars. Yes the idea was pure, but the reality of human nature is . . . . do I have to finish this sentence? History will repeat itself.

Ideals are one thing, reality is another. From my perspective, the winds of change are blowing strong, the economy is becoming a "world economy". Which means that we are all going to become dependent on each other across the world to some extent. If we expect to continue to live the same lifestyle here in the good ole U.S.of A. well, I'm not counting on it. Yes, you can run and hide, or at least make yourself LESS dependent on the economy at large, but, like it or not it will be what it will be! Learn to get along or live alone.

As I'm a proud american, I hope we can stave off the forces of socialism for as long as we can, after all, the country was founded as a republic, that was the original plan. Sadly, I see too many of my fellow citizens falling into the ranks of, oh it's easier to go with the flow and believe it will be okay.

Myself, I'm pissed and I'm letting "MY" representatives know that!

Be advised, those that are best prepared, will survive.

That's my 2 cents, . . . you know what, that's worth 2 bits!

Murph'

BTW, isn't this forum about Lister Engines?
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Doug

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Re: Government health care
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2009, 07:15:10 AM »
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken