Author Topic: my first engine  (Read 18361 times)

westcoaster

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2009, 03:15:51 AM »
I guess I didnt realize there was an actual Lister recomendation for bases. It seem all I have seen is different ideas. There are about as many ideas about them as belly buttons out there. I will try to find it on the forum. I will also use the advise on a chrysler theromast. i never thought about what would if the concrete would crack inside a tractor tire, or if the rubber wore out. That would have not been a fun fix. Thanks


I'm about as new as you are when it comes to listers so.... (Ok, ok, ok.... I don't actually HAVE one... (yet) It's just hanging around out in the bush waiting for me to go pick it up....)

I recall reading somewhere on here where there is a recommended size slab for the engine. I believe it did require quite a bit of concrete....
At any rate, finding out listers recommendations would probably be a very good start to customising your own slab/base

Irish Artist

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2009, 05:30:33 AM »
Hey Dr. D.

Sounds like your making progress and you seem to be aware of what you have to get done before firing that fine engine up.

On the foundation, I believe westcoaster was referring to the original Lister foundation recommendations which you will find in the manuals. You got a copy of the Utterpower CD right? well, if you go to: utterpower otherstuff / Lister Types / Lister manuals and Docs. Within there are a number of Lister Manuals each one has a section on Foundations. They all seem a bit vague, I'd  go with a minimum of  1 ton of concrete, it will depend on the sub soil conditions, the softer the soil, the more concrete is required.

Within the forum is a doc for download, forgot where I found it now, that's called "Engine Foundations.pdf" At least, I think I found it here. At any rate, it's a great source of info on how they created engine foundations back in the twenties and thirties. Let me know if you can't find it and I'll upload it to my server for you and other to access.

Personally, I'd tame that beast with a bunch of concrete, if you're not planning on going anywhere anytime soon then as I like to say, make it "Skookum"!

Murph'
PS 6/1 • PowerMac G5 Quad • An Electric Pencil Sharpener • 10 foot Trebuchet • Woodford Reserve & A Fine Cigar, life is good!  8)

Bagpiper

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2009, 03:28:29 PM »
Hey Dr. D.


Within the forum is a doc for download, forgot where I found it now, that's called "Engine Foundations.pdf"

Murph'

I think this thread engine mounting 4.0 might be the one to which Mr. Murph is referring.

PS10/1 & ST7.5 under construction, a Winchester .30-30 and a cold Guinness

Irish Artist

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2009, 04:47:17 PM »
That's the one Bagpiper! Thanks for digging that up.

BTW, Welcome to the forum!
PS 6/1 • PowerMac G5 Quad • An Electric Pencil Sharpener • 10 foot Trebuchet • Woodford Reserve & A Fine Cigar, life is good!  8)

Bagpiper

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2009, 06:25:52 PM »
Thanks for the welcome, Murph. Mostly I just lurk and learn, but maybe once in awhile can make a contribution.

As my father-in-law (who, oddly enough happens also to be named Murph) always tells me "All contributions are gratefully accepted!"    ;) ;)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 06:32:52 PM by Bagpiper »
PS10/1 & ST7.5 under construction, a Winchester .30-30 and a cold Guinness

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2009, 07:48:42 PM »
Don't let a lack of thermostat hold you up.
I have a Pontiac cross flow radiator, even tho- it is considered no good for a thermosyphon set up.
It works. I have a 120 volt attic fan to draw air thru it.
I cover part of the radiator with a piece of paper or sheet of plastic to regulate the temp.
You do need a thermometer to tell what your water temp is leaving the engine.
That will get you started. Don't worry about having too large an engine. You say it's for back up power, so a some-what greater fuel consumption won't matter. This engine is just like a great big air compressor. It won't hurt it to run at low power. If it gets carboned up, (which in your case will take years) drain the coolant and pull the head. Scrape the carbon off the heads and piston crowns and put it back together.
When  you first start running this engine - generator combination, you must stay with it and keep an eye on it until you get confidence in it. You will work out ways to perfect it.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

DRDEATH

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2009, 06:46:25 AM »
So as I was working on my portable generator trailer today a project which I need to finish before I start on my stationary engine I noticed what I think is the oil filter. It is tubing coming from what looks like the bottom of the engine and goes through a tube part way up the engine and then looks like it has a site glass or maybe I just need more sleep. If in fact this is the oil filter system then is it ok to cut into the system and put a real filtering system on it and just leave the contacption at the top end because it looks like it is rather large to try to manfacture something to replace it???? Also when I get ready to work on my stationary engine my goal is to slow down my engine to around 700 RPMs. When I do this I surley hope there will be a kind soul out there that will let me know what size of pulley I will need to make the generator run at 1800. When I am ready I will post the size of my flywheels. If someone post a formuls for me to figure out then I am SOL. I gave up on math when they decided to include number, letters and silly figures. This is not to say I cant figure out a drip rate on numerous cardiac drugs without those formulas. I can even get close without a caculator. It is just my form of math. My teachers always shook thier heads but had to pass me because I always came up with the right answers without cheating. LOL  I think I have decided on how I am going to build my base but I will post it before I do it to see what type of response I get. I think it will be about 3 1/3 to 4 yards of concrete. It might be over kill but I only want to do it once. Waiting for answers for my oil solution. Mike :)
Breast cancer kills. It takes money to save lives.

oliver90owner

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2009, 08:56:57 AM »
what size of pulley

That is an easy one to figure.  Just remember the belt runs at the same speed on both pulleys ie. the same distance in a given time.

Diameter x Pi x revs per minute     (of one pulley) = diameter x Pi x revs per minute      (for the other pulley)

This is because in  Pi x diameter is a distance, so distance per unit time (distance  x number of rotations) is speed (distance/time). Simple as that. 

Pi is a common term to both sides so can be ignored in the calculation.  You know three of the four variables so you can solve for the fourth by inserting your known values in the formula and then probably use a calculator to find the pulley size needed.

Regards, RAB

Irish Artist

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2009, 03:11:00 PM »
Dr D.

You really should take some time to go through the Utterpower CD, you will find a many an answer within.

On pulley sizes, if you go to: Utterpower otherstuff / sheaves and pulleys. You will find and Excel page that allows you to input RPM and flywheel sizes in any configuration and it will calculate your needs.

However, it would be a good idea to verify those results with the formula that RAB has provided. As George says, do your own math!

On your portable, don't recall you mentioning that you were building one, cool! What kind of engine are you using on the portable? That can make a big difference as to what that "tube" is coming from the bottom of the engine. Sounds to me like you might be talking about an air-cooled gas pot, if so, I'd just run it and change the oil as needed.

Murph'
PS 6/1 • PowerMac G5 Quad • An Electric Pencil Sharpener • 10 foot Trebuchet • Woodford Reserve & A Fine Cigar, life is good!  8)

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2009, 05:29:19 PM »
If you are talking about the oil tube on the Lister twin? The oil tube starts at the bottom where it picks up oil from the bottom of the sump. There should be a  strainer inside.
 The tube is the suction to the oil pump. Do Not cut into this. The oil pump is a plunger pump that is pushed by an accentric on the cam shaft. There is a strong spring on the head of the plunger that pushes it back toward the camshaft.
The oil pump has 3 check valves to keep the oil headed in the right direction. They are simple ball check valves. One is at the bottom fitting at the block, the next is at the bottom of the oil pump, and the third is at the top of the pump under that nut. You take off this nut and pour some oil in to prime the oil pump before you start the engine.
Before you start the engine, you take off the crank case door, and look in at the coneceting rods and crankshaft. Take the time to squirt some oil into the oil holes on top of the main bearings and the two connecting rods.
You absolutely need to read the lister manual and get George's CD. These are wonderful basic engines, but you don't appear to have a mechanical upbringing. That's no problem, you just need to spend a bit more time collecting and reading the literature we reccomend.
Welcome to our group of 'dirty under the fingernails miscreants' 8)
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

DRDEATH

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2009, 11:34:49 PM »
The portable generator is powered by my 20 hp diesel garden tractor. The generator trailer will include a 180 amp wire feed welder and a 220 amp stick welder with a tourch. This will just be used for projects for myself and a few friends who will not laugh that I didnt buy a regular portable welder. I do have a CD and book from George and I have spent a little time with it I just figured I would use it more when I finally get to start with my stationary engine. So the question I had about the oil line seemed to be a good one before I ruined something. Just where do you put a regular oil filter? I know people do this. This might be in Georges book? Sometimes I just get the cart before I have the horse. To back up a little the portable generator will also be used if the power goes out for an extended time for the neighbors. I also plant a community garden to share with others. When I have my greenhouse I will have goodies to share year round. I have to say I have worked on numerous engines in my lifetime on the farm but I always had my grandpa or dad there to master mind the project. Since that is no longer possible I seem lost. Maybe when I get started some of the knowledge will shake loose from the cob webs in the back of my brain. My welding skill returned qruite quickly after 20 years in health care. Thank you Oliver for the formula. I should be smart enough to figure that out. As for the tube Irish it is on my Lister engine and sits on the oppsite side of the engine of the big plate that removes. I dont actually have my engine at home yet because I have not got its resting place done yet. That project will have to wait until the trailer is finished and a storage shed is done. I have just seen it twice since I got it home so I am just going of memory. Enough for now I need to get back to work. I had to work last night and worked around the house till about noon then got a little sleep. I had to log on here to get my FORUM  fix before I goy back to work. This forum is to me is like a drug addiction to others, I cant go long without opening it up. Mike PS I did get a Audels Diesel book because i figured it couldnt hurt.
Breast cancer kills. It takes money to save lives.

Irish Artist

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2009, 01:19:10 AM »
So as I was working on my portable generator trailer today a project which I need to finish before I start on my stationary engine I noticed what I think is the oil filter. It is tubing coming from what looks like the bottom of the engine and goes through a tube part way up the engine and then looks like it has a site glass or maybe I just need more sleep.

I'm sorry Dr. D. from your post it sounded to me like you were talking about another engine on your portable generator. My bad. ;)

Hey, I understand, I grew up the youngest of 6, I was following everyone's lead for most of my life. Over the years I've boned up on my studies in regards to the subjects I intend to master. Of course, I never will but, I'm getting 'er done!

Regards,
Murph'
PS 6/1 • PowerMac G5 Quad • An Electric Pencil Sharpener • 10 foot Trebuchet • Woodford Reserve & A Fine Cigar, life is good!  8)

BigGreen

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2009, 09:12:47 PM »
DD
Here's my $0.02 in hopes that this puts you at ease  :)

I too have a 25/2 w/15KW head - Best think I could have ever bought

My wife too was totally irrate for me spending so much $$ on such a project as well as being jelous of me spending more time with Big Green - Too Bad, So Sad. One day she will thank me

I too have concerns with underloading - I have 2kw of lights and 3kw of space heaters for extra load when needed

I live in hurricane country and needed a dependable backup system that would power the whole house 24/7 without the family crying about not being able to do this or why can't I do that now - 10kw will fill the bill

Hurricane Ike comes along and wife was THRILLED that I did all this for HER. Kids were just glab they had tv and didn't have to live in the dark - Big Green ran like a clock

In summary: Enjoy your hobby, wife will thank you for doing this for her when the power goes out

Things to do:
Buy the CD

Adjust the spill timing - mine was a bear to start until I adjusted the timing. The injectors fired too soon

Change the spring - my governor and linkage was sloppy and didn't respond well to small load changes. A new spring and removing the linkage slop helped. I can go from 62 hz no-load to 58 hz full-load now. I have mine adjusted to 60 hz with both a/c's, water pump and a few lights on. It will swing between 61 and 59 hz with items cycling, being tuned on and off, etc...

Devise resistive loads and operate it at slower speeds to find its "sweet spot", where it sounds happy and has minumal vibration. Make sure you are at least 50% load here. Measure that rpm and have George (or whomever) make a pulley for that speed. You will find it to be happy ~750 to 800 rpm.

Oh, and Have Fun

Dave


Dave
More Power Ashwamegh 25/2 15kw