Author Topic: my first engine  (Read 17636 times)

oliver90owner

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 01:30:57 PM »
obviously if it is over 200F you have a problem with the thermostat

Let's be careful here.  We have an inexperienced operator.  I would not worry if the coolant exiting was less than 30C above the t-stat rating. 

I might investigate why, if it was a new phenomenon, but with temperature tolerances of components, it may be close enough - and if a couple of degrees over, so what? 

Well, the engine could be overloaded, the radiator (or other cooling arrangements) may not be adequate or have a fault, temperature measurement might be inaccurate, etc, etc.  May be nothing wrong at all.  No need to jump to premature conclusions.

But I daresay DD is used to at least diagnosing rather than jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Regards, RAB

Irish Artist

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 04:10:31 PM »
Dr D.

I was glad to see that you grew up on a farm, that tells me that you've had some experience around equipment. Your overall plans sound good, going off grid is a long term goal of mine, I don't have the funds to set it all up at once. I've been tracking alternative power for years now and it is more feasible today than ever. I do want to say, remember, this will be a major part time job and once you go off grid, you will be on call 24/7 for emergency repairs and maintenance.

I would advise that you slow down just a little and research a bit more of what has worked well for others. There are many willing to share and tons of sites and books out there with info on being self sustaining. Mother Earth News is a great place to start http://www.motherearthnews.com/ The Corvallis Farm is an excellent example of a self sufficient farm http://www.corvallisfarm.com/

The one trait that I've witnessed in all successful off grid ventures has been they keep it fairly small and effective, keep it efficient! Especially if you want to compete with the power company. 8)

Another good point, EVERYONE in the household has to be on the same page and well aware of the system and know it limits. No matter how big you build it, this will be a BIG lifestyle change for all involved.

Last chunk of advise, get a book that is a basic introduction to how diesel engines work and how to maintain them. I have a copy of Audel's Diesel Engine Manual, had it for years, it's hard to find but it's great. If that goes down well, then get a Diesel mechanics handbook, that will be helpful with your tractor too. We can only tell you so much, but if you do your own research and have your own resources, you'll be prepared to deal with the issues on the fly.

George's CD is packed with advise, but it doesn't cover everything. I uploaded it onto my computer and re-organized it so I could find things easier. He includes a manual for AC & DC Generator systems from the Navy that is great. No doubt a wealth of info on his CD, but there is so much more to learn.

Finally, have fun! If you get satisfaction from DIY projects, then you're going to have a blast!

Regards,
Murph'
PS 6/1 • PowerMac G5 Quad • An Electric Pencil Sharpener • 10 foot Trebuchet • Woodford Reserve & A Fine Cigar, life is good!  8)

GIZMOS

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2009, 09:51:10 AM »
obviously if it is over 200F you have a problem with the thermostat

Let's be careful here.  We have an inexperienced operator.  I would not worry if the coolant exiting was less than 30C above the t-stat rating. 


I should have clarified the fact that the pipe thermometer gauges go on the metal pipe going into the drum and out of the drum - they are soem distance away usually say 900mm - 1m or 36" - 40" if you are using imperial measure away from the engine - so thats why I look closely and monitor if it goes over 200F at the inlet to the drum. Our winter ambient is probably slightly above your at 65F - 70F during the day so you have even - it is probably more important to understand how load and speed affects temperature and work out what is normal Dr D.

Yes we get cyclones up north - winds over 120mph are rare thisd far south but it is not unusual to get 6 - 12" rain in a night in the monsoonal fed summer storms at least on the sub tropical coast where I live.

As Murph - says - it is about the journey not the destination - if you wanted it easy you would have purchsed a turn key Cummins or a Cat "no touching" type power system.

Regards and best wishes to all of you - some good advice has been shared and that pool of knowledge will grow.
I've just ordered the Utterpower "Bill Rogers" book - I'll see if it is as useful as I am led to believe.

Stephen Hutson
Gizmos T/As OzListeroids
AUSTRALIA
Stephen Hutson
Gizmos T/As OzListeroids
Coffs Harbour NSW Australia

JKSon Cs10/1 with ST-5 Off Grid Power Generation
Lister Fr2-16HP with 3" Harland Centrifugal Pump - Irrigation
Listeroid Addict

Irish Artist

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2009, 05:31:07 PM »
Hey Dr.D, (and anyone else who might be interested.)

I found there are a few Audels diesel engine manuals for sale on Ebay. I'd go for the ones from the 30s, 40s or 50s as they have great coverage on diesel engines from the same era that the Listeroid is from. Gives you a good basic understanding of the engine, how it functions and how to maintain and operate it.

Just search for: Audels diesel engine manual

Murph'

PS 6/1 • PowerMac G5 Quad • An Electric Pencil Sharpener • 10 foot Trebuchet • Woodford Reserve & A Fine Cigar, life is good!  8)

DRDEATH

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 06:18:44 PM »
Thanks for the info, I have my eye on a couple of them. A friend of mine who is also my mechanic here in town is almost as excited as I am about getting my engine even if it is over sized for my first lister. I get it the 14 of Aug. and will be home by the 16th. I have made several plans since I found out that it would be large enough to use the electricty for some projects I hadnt planned on before. I bet I will make the engine work when I have it running. I still plan on a cement structure for the storage area of the motor because it will double as a storm shelter. We have a company that makes above ground shelters and these buildings will take a direct hit from a toranado. My plans are built around thier enginering just a little stronger. I have started securing used motor oil and used veg oil. I havent decided on which I will use in engine. I am leaning towards vegtable oil and using motro oil for suplement heat for green house. I will start my shed with pouring the base for the motor then build everything else around it. I might need to rebuild the base on the generator sincs I have no idea about how heave it is. I do know Power Line sold the system and I was told they were reputable. Any insight on them? This is probably enough for now. Thanks again.
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DRDEATH

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2009, 11:40:49 PM »
Well I got my engine home Aug 16th. When I arived to the destination to pick it up it had no exghaust no cooling system hooked up so I had to take the word of the seller it ran as advertised. I dont think they lied because I have become good friends with the seller and nephew. We loaded the engine on Aug 15 th and started the 1000 mi trip home. We spent 6 days on this trip so the whole trip was a great vacation. My wife was a little over whelmed by the size of it. The funny part was when we stopped in the local Walmart one onlooker came up to us with praise for the engine and the whole history behing the engine. It seems he was involved in helping the seller put the system together and drove all the way to Huston to pick up the engine. I was concerned before I saw the engine that it might not have a large enough base under it. It has 2 12inch I beams for support. I still have my work cut out in building an exghaust system, change the air filter system and desgin a cooling system before I even crank it. I figure it will take me a week to dig the footings and frame up a slab since I now know the size of the base. After it is set then I will begin work on the building. Since this building will also double as a above ground toranado shelter this will take a little time. I had an idea of using tractor tires for the forms of the base with plenty of steele then the ribs of the tires will help with vibrations from the base. Has anyone tried something like this??? Then I will pour the floor about 4 inches below the top of the tire to make it lower than the base. I plan to use 6 inches of concrete in the floor and about 2 or 3 tractor tires thick for the base. I am asking for ideas this time before I make plans. My next step is to pull the panel from the front of the engine after I drain the oil and look inside to see if there is any sand. i also plan to put a couple of magnets in the sump. I saw the oil filter that came on the engine and it will have to go. I havent looked into what options I will have to rebuild this. This is all for now. I appericate this forum for all of the good advice I have been given. Knowing that I did go a little over board with the engine and generator only lets me plan to build other projects I have been limited to because of the price our electricty bill has run. I am confident when I am finished the engine and generator will have a work out. THANKS AGAIN. Mike PS I recieved my Audels book in the mail while we were gone. So I should be fixed for diesel information. Thanks Murph
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westcoaster

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2009, 04:56:09 AM »
So, The towns surrounding you have power outages for up to six weeks?

Huh, Never realised I had it so good here in BC. I'm busy grumbling at the utility if I have to go without for 6 hours....

Faced with those possibilities, I don't think you made a mistake at all. Either in the purchase or the sizing mainly because the big engine is capable of running 24/7 for months on end without a break (with proper maintaince) I can't say for sure but I don't think you would get the same service out of a honda year over year....

If you think you really went overboard on the sizing you could always hook your neighbour up and sell him power. That would increase the load to a more appropriate size for the gen set and help you out with the costs.... (step up and step down transformers for long distances?)

Either way, the gen set will work just fine as backup to the utility no matter the size. Get those bugs worked out then look at helping the utility out by generating power for them (you sell them power) or going off grid...

remember: You didn't buy a generator, you bought a hobby. Keep it fun.

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2009, 06:18:28 AM »
Make sure you mount the generator high enough to be comfortable while cranking it over. eventually you will rig up a starter, but you will still crank it over for maintenance.
Too big an engine will use more fuel, but otherwise no problem.
You can run it at reduced RPM. Mine is rated at 1000, but it shook too much. I got a smaller gen pulley, and it runs about 735 RPM now. It's an ASHWAMEGH 25/2, with a 12 Kw head. It still puts out 10 KW (maxed out).
I thought about two different sizes of generator pulleys. That would be for low Kw and fuel economy at low engine RPM, and high Kw at a higher RPM. I even considered a 2 speed gearbox.
Start simple. Play with it and have fun. When our power went out for 5 days, it ran great. I have an all electric house like you.
I never regretted having a large engine and you won't either.
Just be careful and think safety. Both for the engine and especially yourself and keep others away from it.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

panaceabeachbum

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2009, 06:42:13 AM »
I also think you will be happy with a larger engine . I have read a number of post wih theories on damage etc that will supposedly occur if you dont load the engine up to 75% or greater and for the most part its just not true. Unless something major has changed in diesel engine theory of operation the only issue you should have with an engine thats not fully loaded is a build up of carbon , partialy burned fuel and gunk from not reaching optimum operating temp, which for the most part can be negated with a thermostat to keep head temp in the proper range.

If this under loading issue was the big deal some folks make it to be then I wonder how all these ligtly loaded diesel engines , in semis hauling an empty load, farm tractors, etc hold up so well and run so long?   

panaceabeachbum

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2009, 10:31:17 AM »
correct, low loading will lead to more carbon build up and more frequent maint , lack of maint will lead to engine damage. The increased engine loading is neccesary to keep the engine up to temp for proper combustion and to insure all the calculated clearances exist as diff materials expand at diff rates, but with a water cooled engine the addition of a thermostat can help mantain proper temp at lighter loads and eliminate alot of the issues

DRDEATH

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2009, 12:48:48 PM »
So I have some questions about thermostats. First I know that thermostats can and will fail. It has happened more than once in my vehicles. When this happens it seems the engines always over heat. Regular engines gas or diesel have bypasses but still they seem to over heat. What is the best solution and thermostat to use on these engines because I might not be there if this happens and the engine could be ruined. Next I was curious if anyone has any experience with my idea of using tractor tires for the forms for the base with the tire treads being used for vibration reduction? Lastly are there any brands of mufflers that work the best for noise reduction? That should keep me busy for a while. Thanks for everything, Mike
Breast cancer kills. It takes money to save lives.

Wizard

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 02:36:28 PM »
Another suggestion is go to dealer's and buy a thermostat for example for chrysler 2.2/2.5  this is 195F thermostat and not very big either.   Still working flawlessly after 2 years of daily driving.

The aftermarket thermostat are questionable.  If you are forced to buy from there, try to get premium line and none of fail open crap.

Cheers, Wizard

westcoaster

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2009, 03:23:51 PM »
My thoughts on the tractor tire vibration damper are that it may fail. If your slab is allowed too much movement it could crack and break apart.
Best follow the suggested slab engineering that Lister origionally came up with. Vibration dampers between the concrete and steel bases would be the best bet.

Besides. If you form the dampers (tractor tires) in with the concrete, what will happen when one wears out or needs to be changed? Up comes the slab?

toydiesel01

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 07:25:07 PM »
Hi I am a new bee also  I have a 16/1 with a 10kwt head .  The engin is set to run at 1000 from the factory. I have my engin set at 650  and the governor still seem to work pretty well.  I would think about a battery  setup thou.  My plan is to use a forlift battery and charger and charge 6 hrs 1 day a week.  With a industrial battery charger you will have a decent load on the engin, and the load won't be changing that much so a slower govenor responce won't be an issue.  Also you engin is water cooled but the gen head needs a good supply of cooling air something to think about when making you gen shed /storm shelter.

DRDEATH

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Re: my first engine
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2009, 02:00:38 AM »
I guess I didnt realize there was an actual Lister recomendation for bases. It seem all I have seen is different ideas. There are about as many ideas about them as belly buttons out there. I will try to find it on the forum. I will also use the advise on a chrysler theromast. i never thought about what would if the concrete would crack inside a tractor tire, or if the rubber wore out. That would have not been a fun fix. Thanks
Breast cancer kills. It takes money to save lives.