Author Topic: inverter based generators  (Read 20802 times)

mobile_bob

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2009, 09:30:15 AM »
i know the apc 1400xl units which are 24vdc front end units will readily accept 28.8vdc

and the apc 2200 and 2200xl which are 48 volt front end, have no issues at up to 57.6vdc

those i have tested so far, i have a apc 3000 or it might be the 3000xl which also is 48volt
but i haven't tested it as of yet but i don't expect it to have any issues at up to 57.6volts either.

it would appear that they have a pretty wide range of input voltages, they seem to stay operational
all the way down to about 20% under nominal as well while carrying heavy loads and starting heavy loads.

another thing not generally known is there surge capacity, most think that these ups systems have very limited surge
capability, and the documentation supports this assumption at maybe 110% of full load.

when connected to a relatively large battery bank the surge capability goes up dramatically, to nearly 175% of the rated
full load, and they are able to carry this during starting for right at about 3 seconds. that is not bad in my opinion. that is about max
for the surge capacity that can be counted on most of the time, 150% for 3 seconds is very reliable and can be counted on.
the units are designed to cover the overload for what appears to be approx 3 seconds before they kick offline without damage or blown
internal fuses.

it would appear surge rating is more a function of voltage droop of the relatively small capacity internal battery pack that these
units are typically supplied with, than any deficiency of the inverters or its design. it would also appear to me that these units are very well designed, are reliable and very long lived. The sinewave looks exceptional on an oscope as well, looking cleaner than my utility power here at the house at up to about full load, where the steps that form the sinewave start to appear on the scope.

interestingly the little apc 700 which is 700va or 450watts is also a 24volt unit, it can also take the 28.8vdc (i almost forgot these little guys)
they produce an extremely nice looking sinewave as well. only issue i have seen with them is their relatively poor efficiency of around 80%
across the load scale.  but they are cheap in surplus! i bought a stack of them for 5 bucks each, so for the money if one doesn't mind the lower efficiency they deliver clean power for around 11cents a watt, and they are built just as good as their big brothers except they don't use a fan and rely on convection cooling. that is either a plus or a minus i guess depending on how you look at it.

bob g





« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 03:51:38 PM by mobile_bob »
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ronmar

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2009, 03:33:37 AM »
Cool info.  I would think they could at least run down to the full discharge point of the gell cell batteries which is 10.5VDC for each 12V battery, or 21V for a 24V UPS and 42V for a 48V UPS.  21V-57V is a pretty wide DC input range for one of those 700VA units.  I work with a few of them on patrol boats I maintain.  So far they have been pretty reliable, but I can see the need for a cooling fan for extended run times.  I wonder how one would react being fed full time with a 48V bank?   I really need to get that induction motor on line and see what kind of DC it can make with the 3 phases rectified.  I am pretty sure I could hit the 21-57V range with fixed capacitance excitation:)
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

mobile_bob

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2009, 04:06:42 AM »
the 700's are 24volt nominal, not 48
so they will operate from about 20 to 29vdc, maybe a bit under 20 would have to test to find out.

if you hit it with 57vdc i would expect some complaint from the little guy

:)

bob g
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Geno

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2009, 12:52:46 PM »
This thread has got me thinking about getting my Best 5.3KVA UPS on line. It has a 208 volt input and I bought a 240/208 transformer but was never able to make the UPS come on line with it. Best used a ferroresonant transformer on this UPS which is supposed to put out a perfect sinewave with constant voltage and frequency.

http://genedevera.com/temp/dsc00133.jpg
http://genedevera.com/temp/dsc00132.jpg

Thanks, Geno

ronmar

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2009, 03:13:56 PM »
interestingly the little apc 700 which is 700va or 450watts is also a 24volt unit, it can also take the 57.6 (i almost forgot these little guys)
they produce an extremely nice looking sinewave as well. only issue i have seen with them is their relatively poor efficiency of around 80%
across the load scale.  but they are cheap in surplus! i bought a stack of them for 5 bucks each, so for the money if one doesn't mind the lower efficiency they deliver clean power for around 11cents a watt, and they are built just as good as their big brothers except they don't use a fan and rely on convection cooling. that is either a plus or a minus i guess depending on how you look at it.

bob g

Bob
   You are the one who said the 700 could "also take the 57.6"...





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mobile_bob

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2009, 03:50:02 PM »
Sorry Ron, i will go back and correct that error

it was late, and i am old,, :)

thats my excuse and i am sticking with it

lol

bob g
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jzeeff

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2009, 02:20:40 PM »
I've concluded that inverter based generators with battery assist (for very low and for peak loads)  are a good way to go.   Prices are high though.

A not so good idea (from a fuel efficiency standpoint)  is to buy a generator that is 4x the typical load and then use it at 25% of max load most of the time.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 02:28:19 PM by jzeeff »

jzeeff

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2009, 08:05:24 PM »
The problem is that "experts"  say "buy a generator 3x your typical load so  you can start motors".


jedon

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2009, 12:42:26 AM »
Geno,
Could I really use my Ferrups UPS for something? I have the larger 14KVa model a friend gave to me.
Not sure what to do with it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/jedon13/20080918UPS#
-Jedon

jzeeff

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2009, 01:38:13 AM »

You can use it as an inverter.  Is it 48V?


jedon

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2009, 04:20:42 AM »
It's 120V DC, 10 12V AGM batteries. I was told it would not make a good off grid inverter due to the low efficiency, it's basically the opposite of what I need since it's designed to provide a lot of power for 1/2 hour not a little power for 24 hours.

jzeeff

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2009, 02:12:40 PM »
I don't know the efficiency at different output levels but it is easy to measure.  Maybe a better fit for someone who needs something like 5kva + starting  capacity.

120V DC input is attractive since120VAC generators can  be slowed down a little to produce this (to charge the batteries).

« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 03:25:30 PM by jzeeff »

mike90045

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Re: inverter based generators
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2009, 06:23:15 PM »
Anyone have thoughts about the Honeywell series of inverter generators ? Gas burners, vari-throttle