Author Topic: Converting Lister 6-1 to SOM (Read 20723 times)

dubbleUJay · « **on:** June 17, 2009, 08:08:55 PM »

Hello people,

For quit some time now I've been busy building up a Lister CS from scratch and when I say scratch, I really mean it!

I found this bottom section of a Lister CS 3/1:

and built it up to a CS 6/1 (5/1) with 8/1 flywheels so I presume I could speed it up to deliver 8hp, which looks like this at the moment:

I manage to find a Fuel/Exhaust Cutout Solenoid and fitted that as well to be able to automate it, but I have one thing missing, the
Spring Link, which replaces the connecting arm to the pump when using a solenoid:

and in the manual: (I also need the bracket to push the micro switch, but I should manage that)

My problem is that I cannot see from pictures on the web or the manual, the dimensions of this Spring Link so that I could make one and I don't have access to a working SOM to copy it!

Would someone with some time on there hands, (and obviously someone with a SOM) be so kind to draw me a picture with dimensions please? I think I can cut my existing connecting arm down to size as well, as the one in the manual looks a bit shorter, but again, what length?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

WalkTall (dubbleUJay)
PS-I hope that posting pictures are in order, if not, I'm sorry. I will post more when I'm finish with the project in the photo section.

compig · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2009, 08:16:49 PM »

You will probably get a quicker response than I can manage but if you can wait until Friday when I next visit the location where my engine is I'll sketch this up for you. Well done on your project by the way , nice work.

t19 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2009, 08:24:21 PM »

Send a message to JohnF, he has my SOM and that part is all complete

Stan · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2009, 08:36:12 PM »

What's the size of your crankshaft. The reason I ask is that some 3/1s have a smaller crankshaft than the 6/1s.
Stan

AdeV73 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2009, 09:46:49 PM »

I'll try to get some pix & dimensions for you tomorrow...

Nice project BTW, nicely executed. And of course pictures are alright - in fact, they're mandatory, and the more the merrier!

oliver90owner · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:23:35 AM »

Stan wrote:What's the size of your crankshaft. The reason I ask is that some 3/1s have a smaller crankshaft than the 6/1s.

The 8/1 flywhels would be a bit of a sloppy fit if the crank was smaller.

dubbleUJay,

You may have need to balance the engine a bit if the 8/1 flywheels were different (for the ally 8/1 piston). Checking part #s might give a clue as to whether there is any difference between earlier and later flywheels. The extra 33% power might cause trouble eventually with a CI piston at the increased revs. Someone may know how the engine may last, from experience, or other clones out there, or may know the reasons why things were changed with the 8/1.

Regards, RAB

Stan · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:58:09 AM »

By golly you are absolutely right! He'd really notice that flywheel sliding on easily if it were a smaller diameter crankshaft wouldn't he!

Stan

dubbleUJay · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2009, 05:25:14 AM »

Mornin Guys,

I made some mighty big bushes to get the flywheels to ............

No guys, I fitted new crank, piston & con rod to the engine.

I might be wrong about thinking it was a 3/1, but on the original plate it says 3hp at 600RPM so I presume it was a 3/1. (The top half being missing and all) The "spoke" flywheels on the 1st picture does fit on the crank and it was running OK till now.

Lately I found the solenoid and 8/1 flywheels and decided to fit them.
I'm also presuming they are 8/1 wheels as there are "R70 8\1 30" stamped on the one.

I haven't started it yet with the new flywheels, but should do so in the next few days.
Will keep you posted.

Thanks for the replies thus far,
dubbleUJay

AdeV73 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2009, 08:49:12 AM »

Quote from: dubbleUJay on June 18, 2009, 05:25:14 AM

Lately I found the solenoid and 8/1 flywheels and decided to fit them.

...

I haven't started it yet with the new flywheels, but should do so in the next few days.

WARNING!!! Check that those flywheels have a balancing weight cast into them, otherwise you're going to shake your lister to pieces in no time flat! I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the new style flywheels (with the trapezoidal holes) are not balanced like the 6/1 SOM wheels (with the extra round hole in them) or the original spoked wheels (with the thicker casting around one spoke)...

I could be talking rubbish of course (if anyone has an 8/1 with the trapezoid-holed flywheels, please feel free to butt in here), but I suspect the last of the CS engines had the crankshaft counterbalanced.

dubbleUJay · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2009, 06:42:57 PM »

Hi AdeV,

I'm battling the whole day to log-in to the forum! Is there something wrong with it?
The only way I can get into it is to insert WWW into the address, I'm not in the US and it reverts to http/listerengine.com as soon as I click on a link. I cannot find any info or contact to find out whats going on!

Anyway, I did think about the balancing of the 8/1 wheels:

If you look at the picture, the top "sort of triangle" is bigger than the other two, the key way is at the bottom, TDC at top, so there is more iron at the bottom. I think this is the way they balanced it, but I could be wrong.

Just for reference, here is a pic of the 3/1 flywheel in the same orientation:

thanks for pointing that out, maybe someone else can confirm it please?
dubbleUJay

AdeV73 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2009, 07:01:55 PM »

Quote from: dubbleUJay on June 18, 2009, 06:42:57 PM

Hi AdeV,

I'm battling the whole day to log-in to the forum! Is there something wrong with it?

Frequently, yes

But persevere - and if it disappears for a few days (maybe even a week), don't worry.... that seems to happen with alarming regularity. I believe a fix/fixes are being worked on.

Anyway...

Quote

Anyway, I did think about the balancing of the 8/1 wheels:

If you look at the picture, the top "sort of triangle" is bigger than the other two, the key way is at the bottom, TDC at top, so there is more iron at the bottom. I think this is the way they balanced it, but I could be wrong.

I think you may be right.... and if so, that's just a bit crafty. Gives them a nice symmetrical look, without them actually being symmetric

The way to check would be to carefully measure the widest point of each trapezoid; if the one opposite the keyway is wider, then you've got your answer.

Another method, had you not already fitted them, would be to simply see if they'd roll to a "largest trapezoid upwards" attitude on a smooth hard - and most importantly - perfectly level surface; again, if so, you'd have your answer for sure.

Haven't had a chance to measure those springs yet, will see if I can do so a little later on

dubbleUJay · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2009, 07:43:25 PM »

Quote from: AdeV on June 18, 2009, 07:01:55 PM

Quote
I think you may be right.... and if so, that's just a bit crafty. Gives them a nice symmetrical look, without them actually being symmetric The way to check would be to carefully measure the widest point of each trapezoid; if the one opposite the keyway is wider, then you've got your answer.

The opposite one to the key-way is definitely bigger AdeV. When I put a round bar through the hole and lift the wheel up, it tends to roll to have the key-way to the bottom every time, so that seems to be the case. Like you said, very crafty!

Looking forward to get the dimensions from you, I'll have a look in the morning again. I'm going to bed now, 20h30 this side of the earth!

PS- I changed my email address to my Gmail account this morning and the log-in problems started after that. I read somewhere else that some Gmail accounts were banned before, maybe the moderator does that as default and then review them later to enable them. Maybe something to keep in mind, obviously I could only read that when I was able to log-in again!

dubbleUJay

AdeV73 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2009, 07:49:45 PM »

Ah, yes, there were some spammer issues with gmail - hence the ban; but I'd suspect that changing an existing account wouldn't affect access - I don't think the forum s/w is set up to ban e-mail systems except by manual intervention.

Interesting about the flywheels. They look good, those trapezoidal ones; better than the Indian four-circle design IMHO - but not as nice as the original SoM, again IMHO. But then, I would say that, I'm biased

If it's 20h30 where you are, ~~you have to be somewhere in Europe?~~ near the Meridian (

I just read your profile...) Here in the UK it's (now) 19h49. Sadly, I'm still at work, remotely birthing a troublesome telephony installation. Grump.

I guess it must be dark as anything at this time of night down in SA, at this time of year?

listerdiesel · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2009, 07:53:57 PM »

The 8/1 had different piston, no combustion change-over valve and revised injection pressures, plus it ran at a higher speed.

There are various versions of the injection pressure and pump issue, but a fair bit of the power came from the increased rpm of the engine.

I suspect tha Lister finally realised that the engine could start and run on the high comp setting continuously.

Peter

compig · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2009, 08:12:32 PM »

I think the combustion chamber and compression ratio were changed to obviate the need for the comp changeover valve.

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