GM bankruptcy !!!

[rl71459]

  GM was forced to go bankrupt! and it is complete BULL SHIT! The President decided that is what will happen!

It must be the right thing to do.... I mean, that is what the President of our "free" country wanted... Right?

I better stop now... before I say what I'm really thinking!

[compig]

Go for it , I'm all ears !

[billswan]

ME to spit it out

[Doug]

When the goverment tossed away billions and billions to save fat rich bankers people accepted it.
Bail out a car compnay and save a bumnch of blue collar workers and people get upset?

Realy I don't care I gave up on GM in its present form years ago because I didn't like there cars.

I'm optomistic they make new products like the Volt to change my miind.

[Grael]

All I can say is:


Sure, it's bad that a whole bunch of people are loosing their jobs and all, but the company should have been better managed.

[rl71459]

Let me clarify... Its not that its GM that pisses me off.. Its the favoritism (Bank vs Manufactureing).
The car companies were going to pay back the Loans! For the banks it was a gift! and that is B.S.!
It should be a level playing field.

Sorry about the outburst and obsenities. 

Rob

[Doug]

YA thats a real problem I am concerned about.

Bankers get free money and manufacturers get loans ( they can probably never pay back ) with strings.

Worse still blue and small buisness people ( dealerships ) and trades and service people in the garages get pay cuts or loose their jobs completely.

BTW did any of GM's other non union employees have to take big pay cuts or loose pensions? Realy I don't know I am asking....

And there is still the spector that GM and Chrysler will not be able to bounce back as viable independent companies ( well too late for Chrylser any way ).

The Story of British Leyland and its sad end

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Leyland_Motor_Corporation

[Bluecometk]

Gentlemen, I am skeptical about the fact that it is said that they grossly mismanaged the company. Let's not forget that new models/next generations/next model years, take 7 to 10 years to come to fruition. So even if they made changes in the model years when the long-range forecasters set the alarm on the oil problems and the economy problem, they couldn’t have made major changes to the company. Should they have not put all their eggs in one basket? Yes. Did they get caught out? Yes. But I think they were doing what anyone would do which is ride the profit wave as long as they could all the while stalling for time for engineering to catch up and funds for retooling. The normal indicators did not show the rise of oil and the fall of the economy to move so rapidly. I may be incorrect, but didn’t GM have multiple levels of hybrids on the road and in development as everybody else does? I think they were operating like a miss-tuned engine, they ran full throttle for so long and leaned out the mixture to get every last drop of power until they detonated and melted down. We all know that engines run their best just before they let go and The person at the throttle is usually the last to realize that there motor's gonna blow.

I welcome rebuttal but don't jump on the new guy too hard. These are just my opinions.

Bluecometk

[compig]

Having no personal experience of GM's products it's difficult for me to comment on the viability of the company and it's products. However , they were the largest company in the world at one time and the biggest automaker for 77 consecutive years until Toyota took that title in 2007. Achieving those accolades does not happen without some merit. Even in the UK the Corvette is highly regarded , and trust me , we are traditionally hard on US cars !!
I know an auto maker cannot be rated on just one car but the vette shows what GM can do. Previously I mentioned that they successfully produced what the market wanted , big SUV's and pick-ups , the buyers that more than willingly parted with cash for those vehicles cannot now chastise GM for that ! What should they have done , decided that they should be the moral conscience for the buying public and only produced fuel sipping micro diesels ??  I think the consumer and shareholders may have objected !
Personally , I would not want the task of manging an auto maker in the prevailing global economic climate let alone one of the magnitude of GM.
Regardless of the remuneration it would be a bitch of a job !!

[Stan]

One thing I"ve noticed about GM (and other big name car manufacturers) is that they have spent BIG bucks, not only on bribes (I call lobbying bribing) but on lawyers as well trying to squash virtually every major innovation that has come along since waaaaaay back.  They fought seat belts for years, government inspections, airbags, electric cars (once they discovered how good they are, and how bad for the oil industry they would be) etc. etc. etc.

As far as I'm concerned, they are masters of their own demise.  Unfortunately, as many have pointed out the real villans have taken their golden handshakes and fled the scene.
Stan

[Doug]

There is a lot more going on than just GM.

Consider that for the last few years we have all been talking about the loss of good factory jobs.

So what will all these displaced GM workers do?
Shall we all retrain them to be computer analysts for the new information ecconomy?

Can you live on a coffee shop wage or more to the point can we build enough coffee shops to employ these people and then unionize them and raise the standard of living that way.

Can we drink that much Coffee?

Crazy talk right, well I thought Bob a was wrong when he said he felt we were heading for a "Grapes of Wrath" future a few years ago. I'm not with you on a lot of things Mobile Bob but I think your were right and I was wrong about where we were headed.

[mobile_bob]

the way i see this, it was a disaster by design

you can't take huge numbers of people in one or two generations from living with maybe one used car, a tiny house
or rental, maybe a radio, and 5 kids ... all the way to 2 kids 3500 sq/ft, 2 plus new cars, jet ski's, motor cycles, campers 
and all that without major extensions of credit.

free and easy credit is much like wellfare, really easy to abuse and get trapped for both the lender and the borrower.

folks don't want an electric car that seats 2, not even enough to make it very viable until gas gets over 4 bucks a gallon
as long as gas is under 3 bucks folks want 1 ton battle cruisers, detroit builds what will sell, lender lend on cars that sell
and the circle is completed.

add to that abuses to the system from both labor and managment, there was mismanagement for sure, as well there was serious
abuses by the unions.

there just isn't anyway for a mature company that is unionized to compete against a non union shop especially when the union shop
has a jillion retiree's making more on retirement than they ever did working.

there has to be a balance, better managment, and realistic union expectations

and when that is accomplished there has to be a return to sound banking practices, not very sexy or exciting
but it works. folks might have to work and save before they buy a new car or house, and have a down payment
but maybe along the way they figure out they really don't need a new car or a new house?

so yes things will have to slow down a lot, maybe take a 20 year step back, ok maybe a 10 year step back
quite frankly the last 10 years was not reality anyway, it was all paper/borrowed/smoke and mirrors anyway.

yes GM could have been responsible, they could have built small cars and forced them on us, they could have cut back
and laid off a few 10's of thousands and scuttled several plants 5 years ago,, they would have been in bankruptsy
much sooner.

they are not without sin, but frankly they just got caught in the whirlpool when the economic plug was pulled.

and there really wasn't a damn thing they could have done about it in my opinion.

you just cant reverse the course of a freight train or a supertanker very quickly, especially when you are making money
doing what you are doing. and when the bottom falls out why would you wanna start building cars no body but the government
wants?

bob g

[SHIPCHIEF]

Bob;
I agree with your overview, but I would like to add one point:
Most everyone already has a car or two. The big auto manufacturers are trying to sell to a saturated market.
For the last few years the ad campaigns were trying to get you into a new car every few years.
Heck, I buy a car that's 10 years old and drive it 5 or 10 more.
But the truth is that with a slowing economy, no-one needs to add the debt of another car payment.
That brings us to GUYFAWKS 'dead cat bounce'.
You need food. Many things you don't need. People will be holding on to their de-valuing dollars. They will slow way down on new cars, clothes, video games, the latest cell phone, new dirt bikes, jet skis what have you.
That's the dead cat hitting the ground again.
As we get more 'broke' we will be more careful.
If you get sick, you might sweat it out at home and get an appointment with your GP instead of going staright off to the emergency room. Like that.
Maybe start car-pooling to work like Dad did.

[compig]

folks don't want an electric car that seats 2, not even enough to make it very viable until gas gets over 4 bucks a gallon
as long as gas is under 3 bucks folks want 1 ton battle cruisers, detroit builds what will sell, lender lend on cars that sell
and the circle is completed.

bob g

At the prevailing exchange rate gas in the UK is around $9.00 / gallon !!  That and gas guzzler vehicle tax is definitely changing buying habits here !!

[Tugger]

I bought a 2002 gmc full size truck from the dealer....i need a reliable truck for work....
I fought with the salesman for days over having to order just a bare truck.....no electric windows, no leather electric seats...i wanted a standard transmission....a basic truck...
After 20,000km the rearbrake rotors failed......no warranty...
after 25,000km new rotorcap and wires for the engine....warranty job...
after 62,000km universal joints went in driveshaft.....no warranty....
after 65,000km new rotorcap and wires again....no warranty...and this time they broke the rotor housing...i showed them how to fix it with silicon sealant.....
after 89,000km new rotorcap and wires AGAIN...this time it was a factory recall....apparently there was no vent hole drilled in the housing...never returned any money i payed out to fix this problem....
I traded the truck in immediately at 90,000km on a dodge dekota.....
I will never buy a gmc again....ever...i hope they go under...
Cheers
Tug