Author Topic: Lathes and stuff  (Read 24439 times)

AdeV73

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Lathes and stuff
« on: May 29, 2009, 01:53:18 PM »
It looks like I've scored a nice Harrison L5A lathe from the workshop next door, for reasonble money (they only use it for winding reels of welding wire!) - so now I'm looking forward to getting into a whole world of machining ;D

First job will be to do something with my extremely dodgy exhaust system which is currently held together with an oily rag... but I'm hoping I'll be able to use it to renovate the bore & crankshaft on my 2nd engine (both are rusty), and I'll probably need to machine an entire new shaft for the startomatic alternator, as the current shaft is badly bent.

Also, as it's a fairly old machine ('50s to '60s vintage), I'm hoping I can cut Whitworth screws/nuts with it, if needs be...

So... I'm looking for a good "learn to lathe" resource - any recommendations from the panel?

compig

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2009, 02:09:42 PM »
Cool !! Only so much can be done with a lathe though. Precision requires grinding. Bore work requires a boring bar and honing to working size. Lathes are great for making bolts and nuts though. Also spacers , washers , etc.  Do yourself a favour and get a tool holder that accepts carbide tips , also the same but for carbide parting tips. HSS tools are too much hassle !! Is there any tooling with the beast ?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 06:21:45 PM by compig »
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AdeV73

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 02:38:53 PM »
Cool !! Only so much can be done with a lathe though. Precision requires grinding. Bore work requires a boring bar and honing to working size. Lathes are great for making bolts and nuts though. Also spacers , washers , etc.  Do yourself a favour and get a tool holder that accepts carbide tips , also the same but for carbide parting tips. HHS tools are too much hassle !! Is there any tooling with the beast ?

There is some tooling, but I'm not currently sure how much - similarly, I'm not sure what chucks come with it & so forth. I suspect most of the tooling is original - other than a brief trial at machining stuff, they've never used it (apart from to wrap welding wire) - they get their machining done at a CNC shop which can do it for £00's less than they can.

I guess the typical runout in a bore is less than 0.001", then? ;)

jimmer

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 03:43:06 PM »
Cool !! Only so much can be done with a lathe though. Precision requires grinding. Bore work requires a boring bar and honing to working size. Lathes are great for making bolts and nuts though. Also spacers , washers , etc.  Do yourself a favour and get a tool holder that accepts carbide tips , also the same but for carbide parting tips. HHS tools are too much hassle !! Is there any tooling with the beast ?

Ha!! Now that's funny.

Lathes are good for just a little more than making bolts and nuts. A lathe is the mainstay of any metal shop. I have many hours on an old single cylinder two stroke engine that was bored out on my lathe and then put into service. HHS tools are the best way to go for most materials and jobs. Just learn how to grind them.

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compig

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 03:50:18 PM »
Don't take my comments too literally. I meant that lathes can only be so accurate particularly with an inexperienced operator. I still maintain that replaceable carbide tip tools are best , especially when it comes to convenience.
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compig

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 03:54:36 PM »


There is some tooling, but I'm not currently sure how much - similarly, I'm not sure what chucks come with it & so forth. I suspect most of the tooling is original - other than a brief trial at machining stuff, they've never used it (apart from to wrap welding wire) - they get their machining done at a CNC shop which can do it for £00's less than they can.

I guess the typical runout in a bore is less than 0.001", then? ;)

I wouldn't bore a cylinder on a lathe , also , don't forget bores need the correct surface finish.
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AdeV73

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 05:02:03 PM »

My 2 cents worth .... learn to walk before you try to compete in an Olympic marathon event!
It might just look like you can chuck a cylinder and bore it but in reality there is a LOT more to it than that .... especially if you want a precision result.


I'm sure it'll be fiiiiiiiine!

No, seriously, I plan to spend several months learning the thing before I attempt anything complicated or irreplacable. Whilst I wouldn't even dare attempt to bore/hone a block of, say, my racing car; or even a road car; I'm wondering if, with the precision available to me, I can get away with doing a Lister block... But, not yet.

As an aside, I'm sure I read somewhere that the lathe is the only tool in the workshop capable of replicating itself - only with human intervention, fortunately  ;)

Quote

Making a new crankshaft ..... yeah right .....     Sure it can be done but not by a novice!


No plans to make a new crankshaft, but the bearing surface is rusty on the one that's obviously been disassembled for years, and (one day) I'd like to have a go at repairing it myself (click picture for large image):



My guess is it'll need to be ground down by 10 thou (or more) to get past the rust & back into clean metal. Obviously, I won't be doing this until I'm confident I can get seriously good accuracy - not sure what level I'd need, would 0.001" be close enough?

The shaft I do need to make is the alternator shaft. I've not disassembled my alternator yet, but I'm guessing (OK, hoping) the shaft isn't that complicated.


AdeV73

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 05:05:00 PM »

HHS tools are the best way to go for most materials and jobs. Just learn how to grind them.


The HHS or Carbide choice seems to be one of those Religious War decisions, a bit like computer operating systems or programming languages (Windows rules! No! Windows sucks, Linux rules! No! Linux blows donkey dick, etc. etc.)

The only way, it seems, is to try both & see which works best...

compig

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 06:23:21 PM »
I just wish I could afford and accommodate a CNC machining centre !!
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AdeV73

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2009, 06:46:06 PM »
CNC would be great, but it's only viable if you're using the machines to earn money, and the learning curve is even steeper I'll bet.

Looking at dial gauges now :)

Also, having watched some youtube videos on cylinder block honing, I can't believe that the work can't be done on a lathe - you'd obviously struggle with a car engine 'cos you'd have to centre & turn the entire block for each cyl (that would be nigh on impossible) - but the lister has a handy detachable block with just the one cylinder to worry about  ;)

That said, it still looks like it'd be far from easy... just making the bed go back & forth at the rate the proper honing machines move would take an incredible effort (or a strong motor)!

AdeV73

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2009, 06:48:34 PM »

There are distinct advantages and disadvantages to both. In a commercial situation there is no question that carbide has a huge advantage. On the other hand, in a home shop you are likely to use both types. As an example, carbide is pretty useless if you want to take that last thou off something - carbide requires pressure (and rigidity from the equipment) and can't really do that thou. On the other hand, if you know exactly how much you have to take off AND (this is a BIG one) you know the flex in your machine and you have a decent amount to take off then carbide is great.

If you want to do fine work (like a hair size cut) or do one-off's and need a special tool then HSS is the way to go.


Interesting stuff, thanks. I guess Carbide for the rough cuts, then HSS for the finishing cuts then?


compig

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2009, 07:01:08 PM »
Well , all I can say is that I have done some pretty fine cuts with carbide tips. Selecting the correct tip and having a rigid tool post is essential though. Plus , I really hate sharpening HSS tools !!
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compig

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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 07:06:21 PM »
CNC would be great, but it's only viable if you're using the machines to earn money, and the learning curve is even steeper I'll bet.



I wouldn't be thinking from a commercial perspective , just to play with !! Lottery win fantasy really !!  Friend of mine has one in his general purpose machine shop and it's fantastic how it just turns out totally precise and consistant work !!  I could watch it for hours.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 07:54:46 PM by compig »
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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2009, 07:19:27 PM »
Of course , I totally agree. Have watched the operator setting up and it requires a lot of skill and training. Still remarkable to watch though.
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Re: Lathes and stuff
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2009, 07:38:34 PM »
Just for the record.

 My comments regarding HHS tooling were geared toward home or small shop equipment and more importantly budget. In a production environment carbide is almost always the way to go.

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