Syncing multiple generators

[WGB]

Look on utterpower:
http://www.utterpower.com/home_power.htm

[mobile_bob]

Bill Rogers book is probably the best book on the at home power generation game
in the last 30 years,

i certainly cannot recommend it any higher!

bob g

[cschuerm]

Glad to see this topic has sparked some creative discussion and ideas !
First: yes! fuses everywhere and rated far below useful values for initial testing.

I hadn't considered a squirrel cage "slave" to a primary "master".  Will two ST heads "lock" to each other if operated in parallel ?
Thanks for reminding me about Bill's book WGB.  I've read it cover to cover, but hadn't picked it up in several years and totally forgot I had it.  Looks like he does talk a bit about paralleling, but not in a lot of detail.  I'll have to re-read it all again to see if I'm missing crucial data.
Steve, I suspect that a mechanical coupling is probably the most functional technique and as you mention, has a couple possibly valuable perks.  Unfortunately, it doesn't peg out my cool-O-meter like a "big boy toy" multiple parallel generator electrical connection does  :-) The concept of locking multiple generators in sync with the crankshafts offset to make even power pulses is an entire fascinating discussion just by itself!
There's really just one huge problem with this whole idea: if I do get two generators operating in sync and load sharing, I'm just gonna be itching to try three (or more) and my wife is gonna kill me!
So Jens, when should I expect the offer to come help move these beasties?
Chris

[Jim Mc]

... Will two ST heads "lock" to each other if operated in parallel ?

You better hope so. 

Like you, I spent a lot of time researching this a few years back.  I decided against it.

Main reason was the Listeroids have a lot of cyclical variation in the speed throughout the 4-stroke cycle.  If you have one generator by itself, the only problem is  typically some flicker.  If you have two in parallel, circulating currents will flow between the two generators if the power strokes are not in exact lock-step.  My plan was to oversize the generator head so that they could handle it, but I really wasn't able to calculate the magnitude of the problem.  It was going to be a big investment in time and money, and I finally judged it to be too risky.

AFAIK, it's not been pulled off...

I also thought about the induction generator idea, but the more I read about them, the less I liked them.  Plus, you don't end up with a truly redundant system.  The induction machine is pretty much useless by itself. 

So, yes, it pegs the cool-O-meter, but the practical-O-meter pretty much reads zero...

[bergfire]

The power pulses can be taken care of by adding flywheel weight to the gen head.  Be careful using the chinese gen heads they can be different voltages, one I worked on would motor for while then suddenly overload itself, I finaly put a scope to it and found it was not putting out a properly shaped sine wave.  A slight change in the type of load was having a bad effect on this head.  Changing the voltage regulator out solved the problem.   Worn out train axles make good flywheels.

[rl71459]

Chris

Has there been anything to report? Not rushing... just curious.

Rob

[cschuerm]

I have not had any time to pursue the idea further.  Been working 80+ hours a week for the last few months and dealing with total chaos with customers due to the economy.  In my "spare" time, I'm still trying to finish building my new house :-)
I still am very interested in tinkering with this concept, but sadly, it's #52356 on the priority list at the moment.
chris

[bergfire]

what industry are you in that actualy has people working 80hrs a week?

[rl71459]

Are They Hiring?

[cschuerm]

I run a controls and automation company.  Used to be entirely focused on the telecom and energy industries, but about 10 years ago (having been burned multiple times ), I re-focused on municipal work.  I now work mainly on water and wastewater treatment facilities.  When was the last time you ever heard of a turd laundry going bankrupt or a water plant burning down?
Yes, I AM hiring.  Always looking for very qualified controls/instrumentation people with a lot of hands-on mechanical and electrical skills.  We're absolutely swamped and I'm currently turning down 75% of the work that's coming at me.  Took a long time and a lot of hard work to get the reputation we have and I'm not going to risk it by getting in over my head (okay, I already am or I wouldn't be working this many hours....)

Chris

[jzeeff]

A friend was recently telling me about a entire campus generator that wasn't in sync when they closed the switch - ripped itself off its mount.

Back to the subject:

http://yarchive.net/car/rv/generator_synchronization.html

[rl71459]

Excellent Read!

Thank You   

[bergfire]

I was in the hallway next to the generator room when some idiots closed the conection between out of sync generators.  The inside of that room looked liked a bomb had gone off.  All the switch geat panels were leaning, some had blown apart.  Stuff smoking, the generator pit was starting to fill with hot antifreeze, two gens off their mounts, one in the wall the other on its side, the third one was still running flinging hot antifreeze around.

[Doug]

Ya its a mess thats wy its general done automaticly these days ( and has been for decades actualy ) People screw up and wrech things....

[haole]

Buy a synch check relay.

http://www.byramlabs.com/product_info.php/products_id/8476

You can also install synch lights or a synch scope

Once you get it wired up put a voltmeter across each phase, the synch check realy should tell you when the units are synchronized, at the same time the voltmeter should read zero. One guy looks at the meter and shouts "now" at zero volts while the other guy watches the synch check relay. I do this 5 to 10 times a year.

there are also auto synchchronizers.