Author Topic: Valve guide lubrication  (Read 9968 times)

NoSpark

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Valve guide lubrication
« on: April 25, 2009, 04:37:45 PM »
I noticed that the oil in my 6/1 valve guide wells only lasts a few hours running, even oil blended with Lucas(very thick and tacky). Is this normal? There is some valve stem play but I haven't measured how much.
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

oliver90owner

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2009, 05:19:01 PM »
Don't overly worry about it.  just think of the arrangement in cars.  They go to considerable lengths to hold the oil back - like rubber (well neoprene, nitrile or whatever) seals on the valve stems.  Given no mechanical design constraints, the forces on the valve could be limited to almost purely up and down with no side-ways thrust at all.  In practical situations there is always some side thhrust which causes most wear.  Just keep oiling little and often.

Regards, RAB

lendusaquid

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2009, 01:21:43 AM »
I have noticed on an old valve guide that i took out that it had a hole in the side to allow oil to run down into the valve guide.This was on an early engine and later engines do not seem to have this hole.Some Indian valve guides also have this hole.I am using a Indian valve guide that had this hole.I filled it up with metal filler.

NoSpark

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2009, 04:19:02 AM »
I have noticed on an old valve guide that i took out that it had a hole in the side to allow oil to run down into the valve guide.This was on an early engine and later engines do not seem to have this hole.Some Indian valve guides also have this hole.I am using a Indian valve guide that had this hole.I filled it up with metal filler.

I'll have to pop a spring off and check that out. As long as the oil isn't finding its way down between the guide and head. I give em a nice squirt of oil before each run anyways. Maybe the extra oil helps to compensate for uncorrected rocker alignment  :-\
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

reno-speedster

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2009, 08:59:32 PM »
I have to say that when my engine came the guides were very loose, enough so I could rattle the valves back and forth in them.  If yours are like this the oil would just run down into the cylinder.  I had my guides sleeved with bronze guides and the oil stays in the cups.   I do get a little oil that runs into the cylinder if I don't run the engine for a few weeks or months, evidenced by a slight puff of smoke when it first starts but it is quite slow.  In fact, since I have adapted the rockers to oil lubrication (using a drip oiler) the oil that comes from the rocker assembly keeps the cups in oil.  In fact I need to take some out occasionally. 

billswan

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 01:28:30 PM »
I have to say that when my engine came the guides were very loose, enough so I could rattle the valves back and forth in them.  If yours are like this the oil would just run down into the cylinder.  I had my guides sleeved with bronze guides and the oil stays in the cups.   I do get a little oil that runs into the cylinder if I don't run the engine for a few weeks or months, evidenced by a slight puff of smoke when it first starts but it is quite slow.  In fact, since I have adapted the rockers to oil lubrication (using a drip oiler) the oil that comes from the rocker assembly keeps the cups in oil.  In fact I need to take some out occasionally. 
Hello reno-s

I have been thinking of the same thing, a drip oiler. Do you have any Idea where an oiler like that could be had and what it would cost?

Or did you salvage a used one from somewhere?  Did you mount it direct to the engine or use a rubber line and mount remote to avoid vibration?

billswan
16/1 Metro  in the harness choking on WMO ash!!

10/1 OMEGA failed that nasty WMO ash ate it

By the way what is your cylinder index?

compig

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 01:51:52 PM »
Oilers appear on ebay quite often. I had a the same idea and was also thinking about an auto feed greaser.
If oil from the valve wells is being consumed that fast it does suggest guide / stem wear. Whether that's a problem in practice is another issue.
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ronmar

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2009, 03:29:56 PM »
There is no seal on the top of the valve guide, I would suspect, that even the tightest fitting valve/guide combo would eventually consume any oil if overfilled above the guide.  If you look at the old lister manuals, it shows the oil level in the spring cup below the level of the top of the guide.  When warm, the engine heat and spring motion helps the oil to wick/mist it's way up the guides and springs to gently lube the valve shaft and springs.  You can see this on the springs themselvs.  My springs always have oil from top to bottom, but I don't oil the springs specifically.  IMO, this is just one more reason to maintain a good hot head temperature:)  I use oil for rocker lube instead of grease, and the excess that runs off keeps the cups full to the top of the guide towers. Any extra is consumed by the engine.

I had thought at one time about rigging a drip system for the rockers off the main lube pump, but I could not find an easy way to drain the excessive oil buildup in the valve spring cups that this would cause, back to the sump without drilling some major holes in the head.  Perhaps a siphon/vacume tube down to the crankcase would work, but it seems to lube just fine as it is, with only an occasional squirt of oil from me.  heck, I like to make rounds on the running engine anyway, so for me it wasn't worth the effort...   
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

xyzer

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2009, 07:12:57 PM »
I use oil for rocker lube instead of grease, and the excess that runs off keeps the cups full to the top of the guide towers. Any extra is consumed by the engine.
I found the above system works the best. I had a drip oiler on my rocker shaft (a cheap one) and if you forget to shut it off you overfill the system. Now I just lube the rocker shaft liberally and the excess takes care of the valves.
Dave
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reno-speedster

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 04:18:32 AM »
I made a bracket welded to a flat plate that bolts between the air intake and the head (drilled to allow air flow of course).  It holds the drip oiler above the rocker assembly and the two are connected by a clear line.  I put a picture up here a while back but I don't know if it has timed out.

Yes, you have to make sure that the oiler is off or it tends to drip.  However, the oil in the line goes down very slowly in mine and it seems to work fine. I made a new block and shaft for the rocker assembly so that the shaft is square.  I ground the rocker faces square and put a pretty good radius on them (though if you check here you will see that you could write your Ph.D. dissertation on shaping the rocker face!).  I keep them coated with a glob of assembly lube and they seem to be doing fine. 

The oiler is a bit of a style thing for me.  Whats a stationary engine without one?  I bought mine on E-bay.

NoSpark

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2009, 05:18:33 AM »
Was it here that someone had a small plunger type oil pump driven off one of the rocker arms that continually lubed the rocker shaft and tips? I'm pretty sure there was a video of it too.
Anand Powerline 6/1 ST5

Grael

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compig

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 01:09:25 PM »
That's the sorta thing.

DON'T STEAL , THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE COMPETITION !!!
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listeroidsusa1

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 03:19:22 AM »
While drip oilers may look cool the very best and the most simple KISS method of rocker arm and valve guide lube remains the cotton wick. Simply tie a piece of heavy cotton string, such as from a mop, to the rocker shafts and let the ends dangle in the valve spring well. The cotton string will wick oil up to the rocker shaft as well as meter the oil to the valve guide. You don't need to overfill the spring reservoirs, the oil travels by capillary action. My engine has required no additional oil in several months. It doesn't use excessive oil and the rocker shafts are wet with oil at all times.

Mike Montieth

billswan

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Re: Valve guide lubrication
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 04:18:03 AM »
While drip oilers may look cool the very best and the most simple KISS method of rocker arm and valve guide lube remains the cotton wick. Simply tie a piece of heavy cotton string, such as from a mop, to the rocker shafts and let the ends dangle in the valve spring well. The cotton string will wick oil up to the rocker shaft as well as meter the oil to the valve guide. You don't need to overfill the spring reservoirs, the oil travels by capillary action. My engine has required no additional oil in several months. It doesn't use excessive oil and the rocker shafts are wet with oil at all times.

Mike Montieth

Mike

I don't suppose you could take a pix of that and post it up here?  It sounds like you have the best remedy for the task I have heard of!!

Billswan
16/1 Metro  in the harness choking on WMO ash!!

10/1 OMEGA failed that nasty WMO ash ate it

By the way what is your cylinder index?