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Author Topic: Lights out!  (Read 18794 times)

Stan

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2009, 05:28:36 PM »
Now I'm really worried.  Big news up here in Canada that the ski industry is in danger of folding just like the automakers if global warming continues to wreak havoc on the ski hills like it did this year.  Arrrrrrrrgh, no skiing????  What will I ever do in the semi-winter?   :'(
Stan

mactoollover2005

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2009, 06:01:19 PM »
Howdy Folks
          I just watched a Nova show about the ice fields in Greenland that are melting ,was a good show. Apparantly 30 yrs ago when they first started monitoring the ice flow it was about 5 feet per year of movement, 10 yrs ago it was approx 50 feet of movement and in 2008 it was approx 150 feet of movement. That movement was the whole i shelf moving not just the ice in a vally that was 3 miles wide. The ice in the valley which was 3 miles wide in one year alone moved 1 mile further north.

It may not seem important but to me there is something going on, the North never received a lot of snow because of the temperatures but with the ocean waters warming up by 3 degrees it is makeing the ice melt at a huge rate plus the air temps are warmer than they used to be but still not enough snow storms in the winter to replace the lost ice from the summer melts.

Just something to think about and be glad i dont live on the coastal areas that will be below sea level  in the next 20 to 70 yrs.

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Derek
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Stan

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2009, 06:58:45 PM »
Yup, exactly the same thing is happening in Antarctica, not just on the "inhabited" peninsula, but now research by real scientists (ie: those not directly supported by the oil industry)  has found it's happening all over the continent.
Stan

mkdutchman

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2009, 07:22:50 PM »

AdeV73

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2009, 09:53:44 PM »
Stan,

I thought Canada (in particular) had had superb snowfalls this year, some really shockingly cold weather, etc.?

Now, I know that 1 year is just "weather", wheras mumblety years is "climate" (I believe 30 years is the standard claim), but perhaps you can confirm?

Anyway.... FWIW I'm not prepared to take the likes of Hansen, Schmidt, etc. at face value. They (particularly Hansen) have too much sewn up in the whole Impending Anthropogenic Global Warming Disaster to be independent. And, just like the Warmists will point at any "climate denier" and shout "big oil!"; so we can point back at the Hansen's of this world and shout "big government!". Remember, it's in the Government's interest (be it the US, Canada, UK or EU governments) that Global Warming is (a) man's fault, and (b) can be cured by extra taxation.

The big problem I have with GW (AGW in particular) is - it's all built on computer models. And, as anyone who's ever done any computer modelling will know; a computer model will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Remember, you're in control of both the inputs and the processes. If you assume the inputs are fixed (and this is by no means a given, in the climate modelling world) real readings; you can simply fiddle with the processes until the model fits reality. Then you make your catastrophe predicitons. And, because (in general) the models are "closed source" - not available for public scrutiny, or even peer review - they could be doing anything! Things have improved (thanks to another Canadian - Steve McIntyre over at http://www.climateaudit.org) in fits and starts, but the climate science community is beset with little cliques, bad-mouthing and other unsavoury and unscientific practices.

Then, of course, the model readings don't match up with the predictions! So, they get tweaked, and the "historical accuracy" gets better & better.... but the present day reality continues to turn it's nose up at the modellers.

AS for the readings, well, don't get me started. There's been a huge loss of land weather stations in recent (20-ish) years, to the point now where there's maybe 1/3rd of the peak number of stations. It's not the graph I was looking for, but this illustrates it quite well: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/nvst.html

Anyhoo - the point of this ramble is this: There is far more to this "climate change" malarkey than meets the eye. And there's certainly a hell of a lot more to it than a gradual rise in CO2 concentrations. It's currently impossible to figure the effects mankind has had on the climate, so it's pretty well impossible to decide that man-made CO2 is the issue, cut that off & everything will be hunky-dory. This is not a repeat of the "ozone hole", which turned out to have a simple cause (CFCs in aerosol cans, airconditioners, etc.) and thus a simple solution (worldwide ban on CFCs).

Wizard

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2009, 11:30:43 PM »
Where I am, north side just at east end of the ontario lake where St. Lawerance begins, well, snow melted ONE FULL month EARLY and DRY.  We did get bit of rain last weekend and some rain other day last week.

Cheers, Wizard

listerboy

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2009, 01:19:19 PM »

Stan

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2009, 03:42:02 PM »
Ade...Nope....the ski hill here in Kimberley, as with most in S. BC got a good dump of snow in early December, great skiing until the end of the month and then nothing until late in February.  By that time of course, the hill had been skied off!  In early March we got a couple of feet, but by then most of the season had gone bye bye.  Very disappointing. 

I know there's lots of controversy on global warming but I pointed out that here in BC we have been very hard hit by one of the unforseen consequences of it, namely the rise in insect predation.  See the thread and pictures using "pine beetle" as a search target.

I have just noticed a new large area on our ski hill that is now dead  :'(

I think it's very hard to recognize something as slow and "global" as this phenomenon if you are sitting in a big city or somewhere in the south where there are no tangible effects evident yet.  Maybe many people are like the infamous frog in a pot scenario and won't recognize the heat until it's too late to jump.
Stan

AdeV73

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2009, 04:09:16 PM »
I guess this is the problem with "global" warming; i.e. it's just not global.... e.g. the UK suffered it's coldest winter for many years this year (luckily, I missed most of it) - but then southern Spain where I've been hibernating, has been unusually cold & wet all winter. Wheras last year was a scorcher....

FWIW, I'm living about 500yds from the Atlantic ocean here, and there's no visible evidence of sea level rises (nowhere's flooded in other words).

lowspeedlife

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2009, 04:27:12 PM »
Thank you Ade, Dutchman & Listerboy, all very interesting & revealing articles. the climate change crowd could do themselves well to rethink thier stratgy of ridicule & hate, I'm sure that i would be more open to what they say if they said it with less finger pointing & blame & a few more facts from those who know what they are talking about.



   Scott R.
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oliver90owner

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2009, 05:54:43 PM »
AdeV, 
 
What you said is partly correct.
 
Please note though, my bees were collecting pollen on the winter solstice and up to Christmas Eve!!  They then were tucked up quietly until mid February when they went ballistic with activity.
 
There was no brood in the hive at that time (probably due to laying late into autumn 2008 and the very cold weather just prior to middle of Feb ) but since then she (the queen) has been laying prolifically and I have already put on some storage space (a super) to prevent the brood nest getting congested with stores.
 
So all in all this last winter was no real comparison with that of '63 and some more recent.  Basically it was just one month of ice and snow (not really THAT bad, but people were just unable to cope with even a small amount of snow).  Everyone just seemed to be caught out by the succession of mild winters previously.
 
Regards, RAB

mactoollover2005

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2009, 06:00:08 PM »
I was in ALERT (450 kilometers south of the north pole) in 2007 and they used to have ice caves and tunnels that have been there long before they first opened up the base many years ago but it has only been the last 10 yrs that the caves and tunnels started to melt during the summer,Max temp is a blistering 7- 8 degrees in the summer. Unfortunately when i arrived there the last cave and tunnel had melted the summer before i arrived there, it used to be over 300 feet deep just 4 or 5 years before(2001 or 2002). It was a beautifull area for a rock scenery but the ice is disappearing way toooo fast.
Smile, it makes people nervouse
Derek
Still working on finding a lister gennie.
Derek

Stan

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2009, 03:09:25 PM »
And it drives them crazy wondering what you're smiling about  ;D

Anyway, yup, the far North is getting the brunt of the action with global warming, at least when melting of ice and permafrost is concerned.  What few people are aware of, and what is most disconcerting to the oil companies, is the amount of permafrost melt that is going on.  Don't forget that all of their pipelines up there are supported in the air by giant ice blocks buried in the permafrost every few hundred meters (you can't bury hot crude pipelines in permafrost, duh).  If only one of them melts and sinks, the pipeline will rupture.  That, along with the fact that they haven't upgraded their pipes in years, plus the fact that some kinds of crude is corrosive, adds up to massive disruption to oil supplies, and you know what that means!
Stan

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LowGear

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Re: Lights out!
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2009, 07:09:55 PM »
I will always like George because he's a child.  Looks at the world through a child’s eye and reports back to us in his own honest interpretation.  And like many children, he is sometimes wrong.  He forgot to mention that the species are departing at an accelerating rate.  He forgets that we don’t own the planet and that some of us don’t want to crap in our caves.  We don’t need to be responsible because we’re temporary?  As C. Brown often concluded “Good Grief!”.  And George is dead.  Good bye George.  Have a nice day. :)

Casey
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 08:17:57 PM by LowGear »
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