Author Topic: The Redstone Diesel project  (Read 100920 times)

prof.blink

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #75 on: July 07, 2009, 12:28:04 AM »
deisdave, that should be a bushing in the end cover. with out bushing,  the injector cam and plunger loading would be cantelevered. it is shown in the parts print. blink

hotater

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2009, 01:09:36 AM »
It's always suspicious when a part is left completely out of a machine.  That's more than forgetfulness, it's usually because it wont fit.   
  I'd check the run-out on the cam to be sure the cam isn't bent which would mean the engine would bind up in 'testing'.  Leave out the outboard bushing and the binding problem is solved.

My point is: Always try to figure out WHY a mistake is made so another one isn't made fixing it.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

prof.blink

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2009, 03:04:08 AM »
hotater, go back a few posts. camshaft was bent, shaft is surprisingly flexable. looks to be made of steel, otherwise it would have surly snapped. blink

hotater

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2009, 03:23:18 AM »
Sorry I missed the history, Prof. 

All steel shafting is pretty flexible and the cross-hole tapered pins of the Listeroids (and I presume Redstone) dont stiffen them any, and it precludes using pre-heattreated shafting, too.
  O-1, oil hardening, high carbon, 'tool' steel is available in turn, ground and polished finishes in inch, metric, over and under-sized nominals in all sizes.  There are other alloys that would be even better for the job but the tapered pins would cause problems in 304 and 316 SS and some PH grades.

It would be fun to fit the lobes on a ten over 4130 shaft and oven braze them in place, then grind to finish dimensions on the bearing sufaces, and it wouldn't be too hard to do, but by the time you rebuild all the parts that need it you wont need the engine.  ;D
 
Ya gotta quit short of perfection before time runs out, but the amount of time taken in search of perfection determines the craftsman.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

dieseldave

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #79 on: July 12, 2009, 03:46:39 PM »

  It looks as though the camshaft is at least 1 inch diameter. You would think that support for the IP plunger would not be necessary,but then again, it's best to be on the safe side.

dieseldave

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2009, 08:30:54 AM »

   Picked up my Redstone today. First thing I did was remove the fly wheels. 5 minutes work!
   Removed the gear cover. Upon inspection, I found that the bushing for the cam was missing. The camshaft and camgear is MASSIVE, and in my opinion an outboard bushing is not necessary. I corrected the endplay with a brass washer, slightly domed. I domed the washer so that it would crush when I put the cover back on with a thinner washer on top of the domed washer. Then remove the cover and discard the thinner washer!

  I also noticed that the bearing for the counter balance shaft/oil pump was not turning. I t would turn back and forth about 3/16 inch. I slid out the inner race and found what appeared to be hard varnish like muck stuck on to the inner race. Cleaned and oiled it, and it turns freely now. I would like to know what kind of oil they use at the factory for Runup!!!! The bit of oil in the gearcase seemed thick, like gearoil and had a smell that reminds me of the coating one would use as a rust preventive.

  So far, no sand has been discovered . The machining seems to be very nice. Tomorrow I will tackle the sump and valve cover for a cleanup.

  The spare parts included: 2 sets of rings, a set of valves,a set of valve springs, head gasket plus a full set of gaskets, a spare injector pump and spare injector nozzle, big end shells and an opposite drive end main bearing.  The tool kit came with a handy box end hammer wrench for the flywheel nuts and even a suction cup thingy for lapping the valves! No operators manual with my Engine, but this unit is 'self explanitory'.

  A little more attention to detail at the factory, and this engine will be a World Class Low Speed Diesel.

prof.blink

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2009, 09:10:58 PM »
diesdave, good luck on new eng. glad to hear no sand. with cam cover removed, check to see the casting flashing removed below crank bearing.if not, the gear drive compartment will trap up oil and the gov would have to run submerged in lube oil. check gov real carefully. blink

dieseldave

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2009, 09:53:04 PM »

  The governor was initially stuck due to paint. Easily freed. I'll have to go back and look at the Gearcase,but there were holes going to the crankcase,just cant remember the exact location.

dieseldave

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2009, 11:42:26 PM »
  Did first smoke on July 16 after cleaning everything up. Found a few things that needed correcting.

  - As mentioned before, bushing missing for cam inside of gear cover. Have large BRASS Washer installed to eliminate end play. In my opinion, a bushing is not required here anyway. The camshaft and gear are BEEFY. I think that there was a problem originally with the Bushing lining up with the shaft. These gears are Straight Cut and there is very little sideways force on the brass washer.

  - Found some sand and swarf in the sump. I do like how the Oil Pickup Strainer is high up from the bottom of the sump.  My calculations on filling with oil show that you would have to use 4 Litres of oil before the strainer would start Sucking Air. The strainer has a fine mesh screen. Cleaning the sump was easy, as far as getting into the corners etc.

  -When I re-installed the Opposite Drive End Flywheel, I noticed it was rubbing on the gear case cover. I had to mill .060" off of the inside of the hub. Lucky I have a Mill Drill! The flywheel must have been dangerously close to gear cover originally. This is important as this rubbing would have eliminated required crankshaft endplay.

  -Upon examining the Gear Case Cover, I noticed that the outboard roller bearing inner race would not turn freely with finger force. It would move back and forth 3/16". I pulled out the inner race and found hardened rust inhibitor in little blobs between the rollers. Cleaned it and re-installed ,and it turned freely. Zinc content, if any, in this inhibitor, should be good for 'break-in'! The little bit of oil in the sump from the factory test run seemed to be thick, like gear oil, with a particular odour.

  -For 1st 'Smoke' I had engine sitting on 2 short lengths of spruce 2x4's, with #12x1" Robertson Screws and washers in the mounting holes. Engine rotated 30 degrees until a 2x4 found a high spot in the concrete, then unit remained stationary for 30 minutes, the duration of the test run! Excellent!!  If I tried this 'STUNT' with my Listeroid, it would have been out of the garage down the driveway and onto the street in the same amount of time!  Sorry! I can't help it, OK! ;D

  -A little more fine tuning at the factory for QA/QC is all that is needed to make these engines into a 'FIRST CLASS UNIT' 8)

  - Other small problems that can be eliminated very easily at the factory would be a little more attention to detail eg. paint work< stuck governor shaft, leaky drain cock on water pump, lack of any sort of fuel filter( $1.49,Princess Auto). The 6 feet of coolant hose gets soft and kinks when hot even with a gentle radius in the bend.  This is just small stuff. When you get everything up and running , you want to use Goodyear Hi- Miler hose or equivalent  anyway etc.

  - Now the BIG QUESTION!   Would I buy another Redstone if I needed another one? YES!!!

  -

 

 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 02:30:28 AM by dieseldave »

hotater

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2009, 11:55:56 PM »
Excellent report.  Well done.

My first 6-1 Listeroid was like a very top heavy whacky-packer.  (Jumping jack dirt tamper, for the rest of the world.)  With no way to hold it, catch it, or out run it.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

dieseldave

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2009, 02:16:41 AM »
  Ha Ha Ha ! If China ever decides to invade India, the Chinese army don't know what there in for!

  Imagine trying to contend with a 'Pack of Listeroids' with reversed flywheels and all you got is an AK-47!   All you can do is aim for the Injector Pumps!

  I was running the Redstone today, bolted down to 2x4's on edge sitting on soft gravel. If that was a Listeroid it would be sunk down to the bottom of the Flywheels!

  I sure like the way the cylinder block,crankcase forms part of the sump. heat from the block dissipates into the HEAVY sump(76 lb's) . I have a closed loop (heater hose) for the cooling system and I ran the engine for 1 Hour. It was close to boiling point when I shut it down. The oil sump was painfull to the touch but you could keep your hand on it, so this temp was about 140F.
The oil in a Listeroid would get warm only in the same condition. Not good.  So one can assume that this heavy oil sump and 16 L of oil helps to cool the engine. It was 30C outside today!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 02:20:03 AM by dieseldave »

rcavictim

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2009, 01:00:45 AM »
  Ha Ha Ha ! If China ever decides to invade India, the Chinese army don't know what there in for!

  Imagine trying to contend with a 'Pack of Listeroids' with reversed flywheels and all you got is an AK-47!   All you can do is aim for the Injector Pumps!

  I was running the Redstone today, bolted down to 2x4's on edge sitting on soft gravel. If that was a Listeroid it would be sunk down to the bottom of the Flywheels!

  I sure like the way the cylinder block,crankcase forms part of the sump. heat from the block dissipates into the HEAVY sump(76 lb's) . I have a closed loop (heater hose) for the cooling system and I ran the engine for 1 Hour. It was close to boiling point when I shut it down. The oil sump was painfull to the touch but you could keep your hand on it, so this temp was about 140F.
The oil in a Listeroid would get warm only in the same condition. Not good.  So one can assume that this heavy oil sump and 16 L of oil helps to cool the engine. It was 30C outside today!

Dave,

That's wunnerful.  BTW, you didn't forget that during the first minutes...hours on a new engine it is important to have a load on it and work it fairly hard in order to seat the rings against the bore?
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dieseldave

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2009, 03:09:52 AM »


   I figure I did a good cleaning job, but in the event of the odd bit of dirt, its best to run the unit with no load for a while and let the oil wash out the internals more. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other!

rcavictim

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2009, 03:27:25 AM »


   I figure I did a good cleaning job, but in the event of the odd bit of dirt, its best to run the unit with no load for a while and let the oil wash out the internals more. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other!

Well then, I think you insult the engine even more by not bringing it up to operating temperature during the hour tickover run.  Cold oil will not 'wash away' remaining debris as effectively as hot oil.  Also I disagree with your odds. I think fast application of heat and load is vitally important on fresh cylinders and rings, and doing this ring seating in a situation where the engine has reached operating temperature and is dimensionally stable at running temperature clearances.

Did you put a magnet in the sump yet?  This can catch a lot of 'fur' during the first break in hours, keeping it from circulating through the engine and bearings.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

mobile_bob

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Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2009, 04:21:17 AM »
the redstone like the changfa is a natural for full flow filtration as well as bypass filtration

all the passages are there, all one has to do is remove a plug and move it, tap and attach
some #4 JIC or equivalent fittings w/regulator and filter head of choice.

end of all issues relating to grit, grime, swarf and bird feathers.

gonna do it with my S195's, every one of them
and would do it to a redstone in a heartbeat if i had one.

bob g
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