Puppeteer

Author Topic: The Redstone Diesel project  (Read 99101 times)

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2909
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #105 on: August 21, 2009, 03:59:32 AM »
Dave:

what you are describing is a good bypass filteration system, and not a full flow system
unless i am missing something.

on the chinese single's changfa/redstone they use a gearotor oil pump driven off the countershaft
(lower shaft on those with twin counters), the pump sucks oil up through the sump as normal
and admits this pressurized oil via a passage in the block.. to the mainbrg.. crank.. big end. etc.

if one were to remove the pump, press in a plug into the passage, then drill the pump for an external pressure
line, to feed a filter and a bypass (the bypass exhaust could then be routed through a bypass filter and then dump back
into the crankcase) , the now filtered and pressurized/regulated oil is then routed to the end of the case where the crankcase cover opens to expose the crank, rod assy,,

along the edge of the crankcase under the gskt inline with the oil pump there is another plug, remove it
and insert the filtered/regulated oil into there, that is the rifle drilled passage to the  main brg that passes
right under the passage we plugged under the oil pump in the beginning

what you end up with now is a full flow filtration system that has all the oil that is pressurized and fed to brgs, bushings
etc fully filtered and regulated to whatever psi you want it to, and
you have all the bypass oil filtered as well in your bypass filter.

depending on the quality of filteration one could then be assured that all the oil being fed into the brgs is filtered to whatever micron
one thinks he wants.

with such a system there is no chance of an errant piece of swarf, sand, grit, bug, etc can foul a brg or scratch a crankjournal.

and before anyone goes ape about KISS and safety of external oil lines, i would not recommend steel lines because most folks
won't secure them properly, i would however suggest JIC hydaulic lines size #4 as being adequate and with a lifespan longer than
most of us want to wait for especially in standby/emergency use.  even when they do fail it is not catastrophic, they just start to
weep and drip for a long time before they start to dribble and then much longer before they squirt

a #4 hydraulic hose is good for ~4000psi iirc, certainly far more than the need.

i probaby would not go to the trouble of fitting all this up on a standby engine, but for an engine that will be running long hours
and if i were to do a complete tear down?? you betcha,,, thats the time to make the necessary changes.

i like the idea of getting the oil pressure down to something reasonable, it allows an off the shelf oil pressure switch to monitor
the pressure and shut down the engine if the pressure falls dangerously low.

fwiw

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2909
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #106 on: August 21, 2009, 04:01:15 AM »
also for those that worry about broken hoses, use the screw on ends instead of the crimp swedged ends
that way you can reuse the hydraulic swivel ends and rebuild the hose later if need be.

also all jic fittings should be steel hydraulic fittings instead of the cheaper brass fittings, we don't need the added
pressure capability but the steel fittings take a lot of abuse without cracking.

i can't imagine all the necessary fittings and hoses to make up a full flow for a changfa or redstone would set a guy
back more than 20-30bucks

bob g
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 04:04:13 AM by mobile_bob »
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

dieseldave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #107 on: August 21, 2009, 05:43:51 AM »

 No, it's full flow!  I come off the gear case cover,Through a 3/8 hose, into the filter housing, out of the filter into another 3/8 hose , then into the bango fitting that was originally attached to the gear case cover, then to the bearings and crank, rocker cover.

 The only oil that bypasses is the oil that goes through the pressure relief. This oil goes into the sump.

mobile_bob

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2909
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #108 on: August 21, 2009, 07:07:04 AM »
you still do not have a full flow filtration system, you have to cut off the passage from the pump to the crankcase
and exit from the pump to the filter and then readmit back into the end of the crankcase. (or alternatively the gear cover)

what you have done will filter some of the oil, it will regulate the pressure, but the oil to the crankshaft and conrod big end will
still be supplied from the oem passage fed directly from the pump.

i may be wrong about the redstone oil passage routing, but i am pretty sure about this, i will recheck my pictures
and if you are right i will defer to you.

i know what you are describing will not work however on any of the changfa's, without plugging the block at the pump
discharge and rerouting the oil flow at that point.

so i guess until i can prove you wrong, we gotta accept your assertion as fact.

fair enough?

:)

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

SHIPCHIEF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #109 on: August 21, 2009, 07:55:43 AM »
I used JIC steel fittings in my ASHWAMEGH 25/2 to make a full fow system. I used bulkhead fittings to pass the oil out of the block to a heat exchanger in the hot water up-leg, then to a spin on filter. After that it went back into the block thru another bulkhead fitting and to the oil distribution manifold.
It takes some thought and some 'surgery', but I enjoyed it. Now the oil runs about 10 degrees cooler than the water. 180 F oil temp is good. Before, the oil never got warm enough to drive of the moisture.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

dieseldave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #110 on: August 21, 2009, 03:24:37 PM »

   The oil that goes to the bearings and rocker cover has to pass through a filter, a 10 micron Donaldson. What I have done,is no different in practice than what the Automotive Industry does. In a car, the pressure relief is just after the pump or inside the pump.  In my case, due to external oil lines(OEM), my pressure relief is on the outside.

mike90045

  • Mendocino Metro
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Mmmm BBQ
    • View Profile
    • Mikes Solar PV page
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2009, 06:16:38 AM »
A question about the Redstones - what the drill for starting in cold weather ? keep the electric starter going... or a glow plug ?

dieseldave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2009, 06:35:09 AM »

 I don't Know. My unit will be preheated from a Glycol Coal Stoker Furnace to around 150F., so I have not really thought about cold weather.

 Pre-Heated intake air might be the answer

Stan

  • Guest
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #113 on: September 28, 2009, 02:57:40 AM »
For those without electricity in the engine shed a small plumbers propane torch flame into the intake manifold will do the trick.  Haven't done it on Penelope (yet) but have started others in up to -40 deg. that way. (tractors out in a field mostly)
Stan

oliver90owner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2009, 07:23:57 AM »
Apart from Stan's well tried and tested method, there are a range of cold-start devices.  Manifold heaters of different descriptions may be an alternative to a glow plug which may, or may not, be appropriate to the design.

Regards, RAB

blhfla

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #115 on: October 01, 2009, 09:40:19 PM »
I have 2 questions. One was already asked by Jens a while back, IIRC, which is how long does it take to remove/replace the head (and perhaps block) for cleaning and decoking purposes (as compared to a Listeroid)?

Another is perhaps more opinion/speculation based and I bet Jens is also interested in this, but what are the prospects for running WVO/UMO in these engines (with consistent and proper maintenance for running WVO/UMO, re: the first question), with the understanding that these are DI?

dieseldave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2009, 06:37:04 PM »

   The cylinder head removal and replace would be about the same amount of time as a Listeroid.

   As far as being a DI engine and running on WVO or UMO, IDI engines seem to be better suited.

   Preheat Devices:   ;D I have my Redstone tied into the Hot Water Lines of my Coal Stoker. I can preheat my engine to about 140f along with my Veg oil tanks and fuel line. I ran the fuel line in between the Hot water lines ;D  Should be able to start and stop on WVO.

   Not to much progress lately as I am employed at the Shell Upgrader on construction and have fall cleanup in the yard.
   And YES!  This is the Upgrader that Greenpeace was occupying last weekend.

blhfla

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2009, 07:44:40 PM »

   The cylinder head removal and replace would be about the same amount of time as a Listeroid.


Thanks for the assessment, it's good to know from someone with one of these, as (IMO anyway) it is imperative to adhere to consistent maintenance (piston/ring/head/injector cleaning) when running WVO/UMO. For me, two hours or so of deposit/buildup removal and decoking every few weeks (based on contiguous service) is justifiable for free electrical power.

I plan to run Listeroid/Redstone engines on a WVO/UMO mix using a two tank fuel system, similar to the two tank WVO system I successfully run on my 97 VW Passat TDI. Switching fuel source should be very simple with a small D2/bioD (stock) fuel tank and elevated 55 gal drum WVO/UMO fuel tank feeding a manually operated valve. I would plumb a coolant fed FPHE similar to the one I use on my car to get the fuel up to operating temp (180-190F on my car), and/or possibly an exhaust cooler fed FPHE. 

My TDI is a modern DI design and runs fine on WVO (if done properly), but a WVO/UMO mix is potentially more complicated and IDI is generally more tolerant of such fuel sources, which is why (again, IMO) it will probably be even more important to observe diligent "WVO/UMO maintenance/cleaning" with the DI Redstones than the IDI Listeroids.

Stan

  • Guest
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2009, 07:52:32 PM »
Hopefully I'll get an invitation (hint hint  ;D) to see a Redstone running as I'll be in Ottawa the last 2 weeks of Dec and the first week of January.  ::)
Stan

JohnF13

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
    • View Profile
    • woodnstuff
Re: The Redstone Diesel project
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2009, 02:10:41 PM »
Stan;

I hear ya, but I have none left.  I was planning on keeping one for myself but someone "crying the blues" pried it out of my hands!
John F
2 x 6/1 JKSON.  1 x 10/1 JKSON, 1 x 27hp Changfa, 1 x 28hp AG295, 1 genuine 1939 SOM, a couple of others in test mode and a Hercules Multu-fuel still in the box.