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Author Topic: Bodging a CHP  (Read 6537 times)

AdeV73

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Bodging a CHP
« on: March 05, 2009, 11:39:49 PM »
OK, my plan for my 6/1(s) is, as you probably know by now, to make a CHP setup. But before I go much further, I don't have any kind of cooling system for my Listers, which is not clever. So.... thinking cap on:

What if I buy an old indirect copper hot water cylinder (similar to this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130290855979). I believe that has a heating coil, which I'd plumb into the Lister's water jacket, with a CH pump (e.g.: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360135500735). Then bung some fittings onto the main tank, fill with water, and..... hopefully.... hot water!

Would that work, or would there be insufficient heatx area in the coil to sufficiently cool the water returning to the engine? I'd plan on putting several thermocouples in place to monitor temps; i.e. top & bottom of engine water jacket; inside tank.

Of course, plan B (if required) would be to use the main tank as the coolant source, and I could probably arrange it to thermosyphon in that case; and mabe use the coil to extract heat instead.

Please do bear in mind - this is just a bodge-it job, for now. I need some kind of water system to run the engine(s) for any length of time, there's no question of any of this being a permanant install - unless it works *really* well, of course!

All thoughts gratefully received...  :)

compig

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 12:27:16 AM »
Would definitely work , but you would need an expansion tank in the engine side. Once the water in the tank had heated up the cooling circuit for the engine wouldn't be able to dissipate any further but it may balance and maintain an acceptable engine coolant temp. With the engine cooling circuit sealed via an expansion tank the water wouldn't boil though. Would have the advantage that with the relatively small amount of liquid in the cooling circuit it wouldn't need much anti-freeze compared to a large thermosyphon tank.
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AdeV73

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 07:59:05 AM »

Would definitely work , but you would need an expansion tank in the engine side.


Ah, yes, good thinking Batman... I'd keep it vented too, don't fancy the idea of pressurising the coolant.

Quote

Once the water in the tank had heated up the cooling circuit for the engine wouldn't be able to dissipate any further but it may balance and maintain an acceptable engine coolant temp. With the engine cooling circuit sealed via an expansion tank the water wouldn't boil though. Would have the advantage that with the relatively small amount of liquid in the cooling circuit it wouldn't need much anti-freeze compared to a large thermosyphon tank.


The relative smallness of the cooling circuit was something I was looking for - it means it will reach operating temperature more quickly than using a large thermal mass, which is hopefully better; and, as you state, will be cheaper on chemicals. 

As regarding saturating the big tank (with heat), I don't think that'll happen in the testing phases; eventually I'll use as big a storage tank as I can usefully use; the key goal being to supply enough hot water daily for normal domestic use.

compig

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 09:40:04 AM »
I reckon it would be better pressurised , then it wouldn't boil. Easiest thing to find for the expansion tank would be a car type complete with a pressure cap. Also install a temp guage. System will be fine for testing , as you say , you should get a good number of hours before the tank fully heats up.
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Continental flat six powerpacket
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AdeV73

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 10:00:04 AM »
Hmm - I've been led to believe (by posts on this forum) that pressurising the cooling system is not necessarily desirable, as the CS is not really built for it. I'm assuming here that the radiator-cooled CS engines are also unpressurised, if someone has one & can confirm (or not) that...

Assuming the block & jacket can cope with automotive pressures, I do indeed have a spare expansion bottle & cap lying around somewhere... so, just some copper piping & job'll be a good 'un :)

compig

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 10:28:06 AM »
Oh right , wasn't aware of that. I would be surprised if a CS couldn't handle normal automotive coolant pressure though , it's only just around 1 bar. This does allow coolant temp to be higher which is good for efficiency.
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carlb23

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 11:53:12 AM »
The lister will not like the pressurized system.  I run a automotive radiator on my setup and have modified the radiator cap as to not allow the radiator to build any pressure.  I have mounted a large overflow bottle above the radiator and it just raises the level a little when the engine gets hot.  While I only run the engine for backup when the grid goes down I have not had to add water or mess with the coolant in over a year.

carl 

Tijean

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 12:15:56 PM »
I thought it was more gasket design issues than mechanical limitations of the head or cylinders.
Frank

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AdeV73

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 12:51:45 PM »

I thought it was more gasket design issues than mechanical limitations of the head or cylinders.


I was reading up on that again earlier on - and you're right, the problems were due to head gaskets weeping. Mr GasketsToGo seems to offer the solution with a sealed copper sandwich gasket, so I may persue that option. I'll try pressurised, I think, but only after I've ascertained that unpressurised works OK.

compig

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2009, 01:00:49 PM »
I stand surprised then !! I suppose if a non-pressurised expansion tank is above the cooling circuit level the head of fluid will be enough , also , with the relatively small quantity of cooling fluid there won't be much expansion anyway. 
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lowspeedlife

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 02:24:36 PM »
I was under the assumtion that the o-ring seal at the bottom of the cylinder was the real problem, if your cylinder liner protrusion was set correctly. since this is a real CS it may not have a liner just a cast cylinder block?
   

   Scott R.
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compig

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2009, 02:32:45 PM »
The Lister CS has a 1 piece cylinder block so no O ring to worry about.
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Petter A1
Villiers C45 industrial
Continental flat six powerpacket
ANOTHER Lister 6/1 CS SOM , temporarily !!!

lowspeedlife

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Re: Bodging a CHP
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 02:39:50 PM »
thats what i thought so aslong as you can seal the top gasket youe are "good to go"


   Scott R.
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omega 20/2 listeroid