My new engine room!

[mbryner]

Hello all,

Here are some pics of my new engine room.   We just moved the whole 'roid genset from the garage at our house in town, to the powerhouse on our land 20 minutes outside town.   Quite a chore last week, but good bonding time w/ my father-in-law.   Don't you like the Walmart $15 radiator cooling fan?!   So far, the whole system is perfect for the past 12 hours on the Hobbs meter.   Stays between 190-202 deg F with 2200 watt load.   Hopefully the off-grid power system will be installed in the next 2-3 weeks.   Then the 'roid will be charging a large bank of batteries, and function as the backup to a large solar panel array when the house is built (if ever ).

Marcus

[cujet]

That's too cool. I'm totally jealous. Very nice job.

I don't have a generator shack yet, I simply drag mine outside with the tractor plug it in and start it up. Not exactly a foul weather operation. I was thinking of using a Royal Shed from Lowes. Not exactly high quality, but it would keep the rain off.

Chris

[MikeyT]

cujet,

I have a Royal shed, it is very nice, but they are really quite expensive compared to build it youself. I needed the "take it apart and move it" ability of the Royal, which was the main reason I went in that direction. If this is going to stay in one place, the Royal is probably a bit much.

Michael

[SteveU.]

Hello All
Marcus is being very modest. If you go onto his full picture gallery you will see a plan for the Mini-Swiss Chalet live in capable "engine shed" he is building.
On the first picture he posted here you can see the color coded paints on a shelf  his engine/gen will be wearing in the near future.
While visiting it took me two days to weasel out of him that he has FIVE (one's for sale) diesels stashed around his place. I only have two. I am so jealous!

Nice quiet stable installation. Good job Marcus!
SteveU.

[Jim Mc]

I'm sure it's just temporary, but your exhaust pipe is too close to combustibles...

Think of it this way:  The set has been running perfectly for many hundreds of hours.  Enough to have lulled you into thinking all is well.  But in that time, the inside of that propane tank muffler has developed a nice coating of sooty, oily goo.  Combustible, sooty, oily goo.  Then some time while heavily loaded, some soot from within the combustion chamber breaks free and goes out the exhaust valve (I've seen sparks fly out of mine frequently) and somehow lights off the combustible, sooty, oily goo in the propane tank muffler.

Remember all that excess air a Diesel ingests?  Yep, the spent exhaust gas can support combustion.  So you get a mini blast furnace lighting off in the exhaust system.  Mini blast furnace bad.

No, this is not likely to happen.  But it's possible...

Treat a Diesel exhaust system like you'd treat a wood burning appliance chimney.

[Grael]

Is it just me, or is that exhaust resting on the OSB on the wall? I'd be fixing that if I were you.

[mike90045]

You say it's a "powerhouse" but it looks like a basement or crawl space, with the ex pipe going out thru the cripple wall.  Do you have house/living space above the genset ?  You need fire protection and realllyyy gooood homeowners insurance.

[mbryner]

Thank you cujet & steveu for the kind words.   If only my engine could be balanced like cujet's.....sigh.... Then I wouldn't be planning on pouring more concrete!

Hey SteveU., it was fun having you here for the weekend.   Thanks for the tips on the 'roid.   Come back any time.   (For those that don't know, SteveU. and I are working on a wood gas project to eventually power the Listeroids.   The reactor produced gas for the first time yesterday.  Fairly dirty still but it's a start.   For pics, see the recent post in the alternative fuels section as well as my page on the listerenginegallery.com website.)

Jim Mc & Middle of Nowhere:  Yes, I realize the exhaust pipe is touching the OSB wall.   Thanks for looking out for my safety.     For the moment it's there just so I don't breathe too much carbon monoxide for testing.   And it's cool enough that you can still hold onto the exhaust pipe going through the wall w/ your bare hands.   I was surprised at how much heat the propane tank itself is dissipating.   The final design has the exhaust pipe insulated like a standard flue as it pierces the wall, then into a gravel bed near the building.   Wonder if it will build up a large amount of tar in the tank?   It has a drain plug on the bottom (what used to be the top of the propane tank), so I can drain out blow-by/slobber oil and condensation.  But you're talking about a sticky buildup on the sides of the tank.   If that would ignite, I would be in trouble.   Other guys are using propane tank mufflers; what are they doing different?

What do you guys think of this color scheme:  Lister green for the 'roid itself, red (hot!) for all the exhaust components, yellow for the frame and cage, and blue for the electrical components?

[mbryner]

Mike90045:  yes, it's the powerhouse.   See construction pics below.   It is going to shelter my off-grid power system, including batteries, inverters, charge controllers, and Listeroid.   The eventual house will be approximately 150 ft away.   It has 2 short floors.   What you see in the first pictures above are in the lower level, ceiling 7 ft high, where all the electrical components and Listeroid live.  The top floor under the rafters is eventual storage or playhouse, etc. but is large enough to be used now as a weekend retreat cabin for our little family until the house is built.   It will have the appearance of log walls that are 200 years old.  We already sandblasted the eaves before putting on the metal roof.   Now we're building the doors and windows from scratch.   Note the concrete arch door on the lower level.  The concrete block will be covered by a facing of rubble rock and mortar.   The point is to make it look like a 400 year old outbuilding in the Swiss alps.   Yes, it does need a hefty fire-extinguisher in the corner.   No, no insurance co. would cover this is my guess!      

Marcus

P.S.  I am playing by the rules.  It has a building permit, construction is to code, and the electrical contractor is already starting his portion.

[mobile_bob]

i really like it!

i got a hillside that i plan on exploiting as well,

being able to use gravity to my advantage seems like a good idea
i want to place the grain press up above, and then let it filterdown into the engine room below

and place my oilseed bin even higher up the hill, so maybe i don't have to pickup and carry much of anything

i really like the look of your so called "shed" 

bob g

[SteveU.]

Marcus's gravity useage sure played a joke on me. After having stupidly request to turn the engine off for a feel check and him commenting I'd then have to work by flashlight, later after he had shut down I watched him casually washing his hands out of a pressure faucet; huh? He has a 300 foot deep well. Then he explained the two 5000 gallon tanks up the hill that the 3 hour engine run had just powered to top up.
He did run it an honest 3 hours that afternoon. Coolant temperature was rock steady at 200F after 45 minutes. Observe the pictures: the electrical disconnect is up and on. Look at the receptacle: full up. He was running a 2000+ watt load the whole time with 1/4 usable fuel rack still available (I goosed it). His exhaust was clean with just combustion moister condesent and still warm enough to carry it out ( there was no tank accumulation drainable). His exhaust tank was too warm to touch and did kick out an amazing amount space heating into his building.
But now having felt just how much space heating (150 square feet with only a 30F degree temprature rise) the engine/coolant/exhaust/gen head is capable of it"s a good thing I kept an old wood stove for my 18 x 40 foot shop building: my 12/1 system "waste" heating isn't going to be enough. All of ronmars and others BTU waste heating calculations  are correct :even with approximatly 2/3 total "waste" heating potentially available for space heating from one of these systems it is not going to be enough heating potential in the winter for any SWMBO approved sized living space.

SteveU.

[mbryner]

mobile_bob:  That would be awesome, and would be much less work to exploit gravity.  The seed press would be ideal.  Much cleaner than fossil fuels probably.   But quite a bit of work, right!   Are you processing your own grain?  Is it cost effective?  Do you have land to grow grain?  How much volume of a seed-type does it take to make a gallon of Lister fuel?  (guess I can look that up online).   Just filter once is adequate for a Lister?  I was planning on using the "Jens method" of burning WMO eventually.

[SHIPCHIEF]

That's very nice!
I have been designing an engine room that looks like a German railroad engine shed, kinda'. Funny how you have similar exterior motif. 
Your engine room is on a hillside! I never thought of that, but then, my property is flat.
I love the arch door and stone exterior. The idea of building something useful that will last beyond your own lifetime! How old fashioned is that?

[billswan]

Marcus's gravity useage sure played a joke on me. After having stupidly request to turn the engine off for a feel check and him commenting I'd then have to work by flashlight, later after he had shut down I watched him casually washing his hands out of a pressure faucet; huh? He has a 300 foot deep well. Then he explained the two 5000 gallon tanks up the hill that the 3 hour engine run had just powered to top up.
He did run it an honest 3 hours that afternoon. Coolant temperature was rock steady at 200F after 45 minutes. Observe the pictures: the electrical disconnect is up and on. Look at the receptacle: full up. He was running a 2000+ watt load the whole time with 1/4 usable fuel rack still available (I goosed it). His exhaust was clean with just combustion moister condesent and still warm enough to carry it out ( there was no tank accumulation drainable). His exhaust tank was too warm to touch and did kick out an amazing amount space heating into his building.
But now having felt just how much space heating (150 square feet with only a 30F degree temprature rise) the engine/coolant/exhaust/gen head is capable of it"s a good thing I kept an old wood stove for my 18 x 40 foot shop building: my 12/1 system "waste" heating isn't going to be enough. All of ronmars and others BTU waste heating calculations  are correct :even with approximatly 2/3 total "waste" heating potentially available for space heating from one of these systems it is not going to be enough heating potential in the winter for any SWMBO approved sized living space.

SteveU.

Hello SteveU

In your quote above you mention a 12/1 may not make enough waste heat to heat a 18x40 shop. Let me tell you if you have enough insulation it will have enough potential to do the job. I have run my 10/1 now for about 80 hours, I have it hooked to my larger shop and garage up here in Minnesota. The shop has pex tubing buried under the concrete floor (about 4000 feet) to form the heating system. The building is 54feet X 75 feet X 16 feet tall and the 10/1 has proven to have much more than enough heat output to keep the air temp at 60 degrees +. I have the exhaust going through a heat exchanger to save that heat + the heat off the cooling system make enough heat to keep the water in the in floor hydronic system temperature climbing  slowly, if a 3000 to about 4500 watt load is kept on the gen the engine is powering. Although the engine would have to run 24-7 to do it. I do not have the murphy shutdown finished yet so I have not run it round the clock YET. I am in the testing stage now and am using the electric power to also heat water for the floor, when you add in a 4500 watt water heating element to the other heat generated the temp of the hydronic floor water rises to about 15 degrees higher than the 70 degrees the normal propane boiler drives it to to keep the building warm. I have just been running the unit about 10 hours a day when I am nearby. When I shut off the listeroid after a days run the furnace takes a long time to run again. The floor is a huge radiator one that contains about 60 cubic yards of concrete and  sand under it!   
I am running on waste motor oil, so far so good.

Billswan

[SteveU.]

Good real world information you posted about your  Combined Heat and Power (CHP) system on Reply#14 billswan.
I hope this catches the eyes of members working toward CHP. Real good photo of yours you posted on the photo gallery. Shows your exhaust and coolant heat mining set -ups real good.
What you, I, and Marcus have in common is that by using these systems in rural areas to heat Utility spaces we can harvest every BTU possible without spouse objections to smell and noise. I only need to keep my shop above 55 F. to keep the 11 months out of  the year  air condensation sweat from rusting up my tools and equipment.

I joined this forum to learn about the specifics of the CS Lister/iod diesels and what I've found if a group of people who for the most part are practical minded DOers. This often does not show up in pictures. Marcus's suspension bridge he designed and built across their year round creek that does Not sway. The Forest Service quality trail he and his wife (her pregnant) dug out, graded by hand on their creek loop. Has two bridges and staired sections. Watching him, watch the rain water runnels and runoff so he could continue his grading and drainage development for his building sites and driveways. Work with Nature and the weather. Wind spitting is stupid, messy, and too expensive.

Yep, lots of smart practical tough people here.  I like it.

SteveU.