Author Topic: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?  (Read 18054 times)

piperpilot3tk

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Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« on: February 14, 2009, 02:32:49 PM »
I have been reading everything I can about exhaust slobbering and I still cant come to a definate conclusion.  Most people say you will get slobbering if you are not running enough load, the same people rarely mention operating temp.  My thought is that if the operating temp is correct the even if you are only lightly loaded you will have complete combustion and slobbering should not happen.  I also realize that under a high load the cylinder pressure will be much higher and the rings will seat better, but ring seating should have nothing to with slobbering and everything to do with oil consumption and blow-by.  Alot of stuff that I have read has base ring seating and engine load as thier reasoning for the exhaust slobber. So if I were to run a theromostat and get the engine temp right but run a small load do you thing I will get the dreaded slobber? 

Oilengines

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 03:20:09 PM »
If you have oil coming up past the rings already, then you'll need to get rid of the problem before starting to try any other tests.

Running at 3/4 to full load for 3-4 hours will normally bed the rings back in and get rid of any light mineral glaze from the oil on the bores.

Temperature has a lot to do with the problem, as pistons do not expand and rings do not maintain a good contact with the bore walls if the temperature is too low.

If you need to run at low loadings, try and keep the temperature up by restricting cooling.

Pare

Stan

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 04:02:52 PM »
Engine wear in has more to do with heavy loading than simply temps.  You are trying to accomplish wear in initially.

What kind of oil are you using?
Stan

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 05:30:55 PM »
Stan, I dont have an engine yet so I do not know ahat type of oil I will run.  Good point about load during break in.  Just trying to understand if I would have a slobbering problem if i were to run it with a light load.

ronmar

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 08:22:12 PM »
Stan, I dont have an engine yet so I do not know ahat type of oil I will run.  Good point about load during break in.  Just trying to understand if I would have a slobbering problem if i were to run it with a light load.

Well when you get an engine, get it loaded up and broke in as soon as practical.  Look around at garage sales for old baseboard heaters.  They are inexpensive and make excellent loadbanks for an electric generator.  http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2009021413260536&catname=&byKeyword=yes&search=heater  has a bunch of them for not a lot of money.  Two 4'/1KW and one 6'/1.5KW heaters would make an excellent loadbank setup for a 6/1 genset, for around $44...  I have a 1KW and a 2.5KW mounted to the cinderblock wall in my generator room.  They were basically free as I removed them from my house during some remodel work.  I have had virtually no slobber issues with my 6/1.  Within a few hours of getting it running(after a through teardown inspection), I got a load onto it and broke it in.  I also have typically in excess of 2KW of electric load on it when in operation.  I also use a thermostat and the head temp stays in excess of 190F.

Now the question for you is why would you want to run the engine lightly loaded?  Diesels don't like this.  Even with the use of a thermostat to keep the coolant temp up there, the light loading only puts so much heat into, in the case of a roid, a rather massive metal heat sink.  This keeps combustion temperatures low and does not allow as complete a combustion.  This is less efficient and combustion gasses condense into carbon on the cooler surfaces.  A more heavilly loaded engine has much higher internal surface temps, more efficient combustion and less carbon buildup.  You run into the same thing with wood stoves.  A small cool fire doesn't combust as cleanly in the firebox and dosn't put as much heat up the chimney.  The unburnt gasses condense and form a layer of carbon and cresote on the inside of the chimney.  Conversley, a good hot fire burns cleaner and keeps the chimney temp such that deposits do not form. 

A properly configured power setup is a ballance between supply and demand and bigger is definitely not better.  I have seen the results of this thinking several times, and they usually result in failed equipment and a redesign of the system.  If your average running load is below 50% of the engines capacity, then you need a smaller engine.  If you have some single large loads, then perhaps you need a larger demand generator to meet those needs, or move them to another power source such as shifting an electric water heater or dryer to gas.  Another option is to have a large generator to meet those peak demands, and add additional load to the engine during off peak times, such as heating water electrically and storing it for later use to heat a home.  This of course is not as efficient as a properly sized small generator.  Another option would be to keep the engine properly loaded and put excess power into a battery bank and only run the generator at peak/charging times, and power the small average load off of the inverter. 

There are usually a bunch of ways to solve different problems, but IMO, oversizing/underloading the prime mover is not the way to do it.

My .02     
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 09:06:21 PM »
Thanks for the info ronmar.  My problem is that I want to stay with a single cylinder but I want to be able to run the A/C.  If I go with the 12-1 I could make 6 to 7 Kw continously which I think (operative word is think) will start my A/C unit.  When the A/C is not running my load will likely be about 2500 watts (I think) if I load shed my electric water heater.  So yes I agree that smaller is better but a 6-1 wont do it and most of the time the 12-1 will not be loaded very heavily. 

rocketboy

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 09:48:02 PM »

Too much oil in upper cylinder head will make it slobber. The oil leaks around the valve guides into the combustiion chamber during non-operation, then it blows nasty black oil all over during startup. May be interpreted as ring break in problems.

bob
Sadly, artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural stupidiy.

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 10:10:33 PM »
Rocketboy, please read my post under the title "new guy" and throw in your 2 cents.  BTW did you get your 6-1 direct fom Power Anand or buy it from an importer?

rocketboy

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 02:54:03 PM »
The 6/1 was bult by Anand, and sold to me thru GTC engines. I deal directly with Power Anand now for all affairs.

Love my 6/1, way better than the twin. If you can live on 4kw, a 6/1 is the way to go.

Bob
Sadly, artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural stupidiy.

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 05:17:42 PM »
Rocketboy, I too am starting to think the 6/1 will be the way to go.  Do you think the electric start 6/1 that CMD sells really has the internal CBWs that the web page says it does?  If it does do you think you could safely spin it up a bit like you did with your 6/1 to get a little more power?  Maybe you could turn it at 850 and get about 8 H.P.  I wish that CMD would reply to my email questions about the electric start singles :-\

xyzer

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 06:27:33 PM »
Rocketboy, I too am starting to think the 6/1 will be the way to go.  Do you think the electric start 6/1 that CMD sells really has the internal CBWs that the web page says it does?  If it does do you think you could safely spin it up a bit like you did with your 6/1 to get a little more power?  Maybe you could turn it at 850 and get about 8 H.P.  I wish that CMD would reply to my email questions about the electric start singles :-\
IMO the limiting increased RPM factor is the 6/1 flywheels.....
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Power Solutions portable 6/1
Z482 KUBOTA

piperpilot3tk

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 06:38:37 PM »
I assume by looking at the pictures, and because they say the crank has CBWs that the installed electric start 6/1 has the same flywheels as the electric start 12/1.  This is purely speculation untill I get some more info....that is if anyone can tell me for sure.  The only people that may know is Power Anand.

xyzer

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 07:00:33 PM »
Ahh...I went to CMD site and see what you mean.....
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lowspeedlife

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 09:06:55 PM »
It will be interesting to see what phil says, i do know that the stationary parts electric start "kit" requires you to replace at least one of your flywheels with the small flywheel because the ring gear will not fit the larger flywheels. And I believe it is the same electric start set up as the ones on CMD's engines, no matter what the guy at stationary parts will tell you.









  Scott R.
Scott R.

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piperpilot3tk

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Re: Slobbering=not enough temp or not enough load?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 05:08:06 PM »
Still no answer from CMD about the electric start models :(