Grid tied inverter driven directly from generator

[jens]

removed

[Tom]

If I was going to back feed the grid and starting from scratch, I'd use a 3 phase head and get a grid tie inverter that uses wild AC from a wind generator. I'd bet that would give the highest efficiency too.

[LowGear]

Hi Jens,

I've been looking for this information on this site and others for over a year now.  I've tried contacting a half dozen members that have something like this setup and got fantastic help from a couple of them.  A couple probably didn't get my emails or requests similar to yours here. 

Carl, a member of LEF, has a great system in New Jersey, is really helpful and has a web site but hasn't gone to the step where he grid ties the Lister generated power.  I believe his recommendation is much like Tom’s only he suggested looking at DC generator heads.

Outback has a neat but not cheap inverter that has a few batteries that can be charged via a engine powered generator and excess power goes to the grid – if I understand their website correctly.

Please help Jens.

Your selfless associate,

LowGear

[Tom]

With this inverter here http://www.sma-america.com/en_US/products/wind-power-inverters/windy-boy-700u-3000us.html all you would have to do is rectify the put put of a 3 phase generator and you are good to go. The 3000 watt unit is about perfect for lister 6/1 powered unit, and they do make bigger ones. Cost is $2100. As a bonus you can vary the speed of the engine to run at the most efficient rpm.

[Tom]

Got it. The point I'm trying to make is that Windy Boy inverter is designed to take rectified 3 phase and connect to the grid. I don't think you will find an inverter with the rectifier built in as it would limit the applications quite a bit.

[Tom]

For a windmill app, it will probably take a much wider range of DC voltages. The specs are right there on the link I posted.

[SCOTT]

Hi,
it has been quite a while since I have been on the site.  I have grid tied setup you are referring to.  It is  sma Sb 3000 fed by rectified, filtered to <2% ripple, single phase ac, powered by a Lister type 6/1.  This setup has been approved by both the utility and my city.  If you want the drawings I can provide them, e-mail me at sklym@hotmail.com  You can also search my previous posts were there is a general overview of the system

Scott

[Tom]

Ah, there is the difference, the Windy Boy is rated for <10% ripple.

[holtonrb]

 I too have just recently boought a Lister 6/1.  Mine has a 5KW generater and I would like to do grid intertie.   I am ignorant on the subject and this is where I am starting my education.  Can someone please give the low-down as to what equipment I will need and why.  By the way, the power company has been very cooperative but they readily admit that mine is the first AC system to intertie. all of the other intertie stations in their system are solar panels that generate DC and have to be inverted to AC.  I thought that because my generator will make AC then I didnt need an inverter.  I guess I thought wrong?

[holtonrb]

Jen, thank you for the explanation.
Tom, Thank you for the link to  SMA.  I will call them tomorrow and inquire as to their products.  The price you mention is a little unsettling, considering I paid  only $1400 for the Lister and the generator!

[msdmaule]

Why can't you just plug your gen set into into the grid, we tried a test to day with a 3500 watt non lister gen set had no problem ,tried to get a tech person from the utility co. but could't so just tied it .If there was a power outage down from the utility it should just blow your breaker right, tell what you think.       

[LowGear]

It's worser than illegal it's against your utilities rules and guidelines.  I'd be pretty quiet around the utility with this sort of recklessness.  You see they have this thing about frying line workers before your breaker pops.  You know how bureaucrats are?

Casey

[msdmaule]

WOW can support your findings with legal or logic ,the power co.  in my area has what is know as net metering .Net metering states you can legally supply power back to the grid on a annual basis so it is not illegal , and on the other point of safety if utility power goes out and a 5k gen set can supply my power needs and 140000 other customers without blowing a 40amp breaker then I am buying two gen sets and starting my own utility co. As I stated on my earlier post I contacted my utility co. I tried/ begged to a tech person on the phone. Most states have net metering I believe this is the best rout to peruse if you have a gen set, as you use the grid as a battery this way you don't have to generate all your power all the time and you get credits not money on over produced power.           

[LowGear]

Jens posted while I was composing.  I'm more of a smartass but I think the messages are too similar not to consider.

Permit number please?  You know; the certificate from the governing body (city, county or state) stating your wiring configuration has meet code and you may hook your system up to the "Grid".

Contract number please?  You know, where the "Grid" owners agree that you have met the requirements of the governing body and you may hook your system up including upgraded meters and automatic disconnect switch.  Fees?  Billing considerations?

These are points of law and/or regulation which often are only second cousins to logic or "Smartz".  You quoted the law in your challenge - perhaps you should read it.  You're playing with liability disaster in Realityland.  Be careful!

Casey

[SteveU.]

New Member msdmaule
Irregardless of what National/Federal grid tie encouragement law says it has to actually be implemented (allowed) at the local by the local grid owners and their workers. Pretty clear in many areas many Utlities do NOT want to lose their monopoly. Also pretty clear in many areas with strong local unions the workers don't want this either.

I live with in an area with a Public Chartered and Owned Power District. No private owners. No union workers. As a Public Utility my local grid provider gets a discount on Federal power if they can suppiy generation capabi;ity back into the Federal system. They want and encourage customer contributions into their system.
BUT ONLY IF ITS DONE THIER WAY.
Casual people with a consumer grade portable get ONE forgiveness for their ignorant stupidity. Someone with a noisy non-portable system such as yours shows legally defined "Intent". They are immediately disconnected by a lead line drop and removal. Your name is put on a national DO NOT SERVICE list. They contact and report this to the FBI and the DEA.
If any of their workers was injured you WILL BE PROSOCUTED for MANSLAUGHTER. This has happened. Want the names of a couple of fellows in prison right now?
So you go ahead and keep kissing this snake. We will all just call you Steve Irwin.

SteveU.